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Coach Update (Pg. 59 - D'Antoni WILL coach tonight)


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#21 lildvl10

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:06 AM

IF WE SOMEHOW GET PHIL AGAIN, HOW DO YOU THINK NASH WILL THRIVE ON TRIANGLE OFFENSE?

#22 bigfetz

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:06 AM

I love all of the excuses for us losing with Phil...

So he won 2 back to back championships before that season then because he didn't win one more he now will suck and wont know what to do with this team.
:whistle:

#23 bigfetz

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:07 AM

IF WE SOMEHOW GET PHIL AGAIN, HOW DO YOU THINK NASH WILL THRIVE ON TRIANGLE OFFENSE?

IDK WE WILL SEE

#24 West Coast

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:08 AM

2008 championship roster -

Derek Fisher / Jordan Farmar / Sun Yue
Kobe Bryant / Shannon Brown / Sasha Vujacic
Lamar Odom/ Trevor Ariza / Luke Walton / Adam Morrison
Pau Gasol / Josh Powell
Andrew Bynum / DJ Mbenga

2009 championship roster -

Derek Fisher / Jordan Farmar
Kobe Bryant / Shannon Brown / Sasha Vujacic
Ron Artest / Adam Morrison / Luke Walton
Pau Gasol / Lamar Odom / Josh Powell
Andrew Bynum / DJ Mbenga


This year's roster:

Steve Nash / Steve Blake / Darius Morris / Chris Duhon
Kobe Bryant / Jodie Meeks
Ron Artest / Devin Ebanks / Earl Clark
Pau Gasol / Antawn Jamison
Dwight Howard / Jordan Hill / Robert Sacre




Tell me again how this year's roster cannot run the triangle.

#25 GCMD

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:08 AM

So you believe this team doesn't have the pieces to run the Triangle?


Yes I do think we have the pieces but believe it or not, Nash is not the best PG on this roster for the Triangle...That would be Meeks or Blake.

Notice, I said FOR THE TRIANGLE.

Our best TRIANGLE C? Pau
Best TRIANGLE PF? Jamison
Best TRIANGLE SF? Ebanks or Kobe


The starting Unit we have now would not be ideal...bringing Phil and the Triangle back would require a major overhaul of the players (mindsets/habits) OR tweaking the Triangle past the point of recognition...either seems to be like forcing a square peg in a TRIANGLE hole...


Phil's last stand with the Lakers was FAR from perfect...but we choose to remember what we would like to remember.


And the next coach needs to commit to coaching Dwight for the foreseeable future, not until he's tired of winning (or wants to go out on top instead of a loss)...I don't see that in Phil.

#26 GCMD

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:11 AM

So what about us winning 5 championships with Phil? Thats got to say something about him right? or wait no championships are meaningless.


You're not seeing it.

Sloan is hungry.
D'Antoni is hungry.
Nash is hungry.
Dwight is hungry.
Kobe is hungry (to pass MJ).


Phil? What does he have to prove? He's walked away enough...and you want to hand the keys back over to him because he's done it before?

#27 bigfetz

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:14 AM

Sloan is hungry.

I have seen a lot of report that sloan just wants to be retired. I think D-Will ended his career

#28 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:15 AM

So you believe this team doesn't have the pieces to run the Triangle?


The triangle is about post moves. So no, we don't
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#29 Real Deal

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:19 AM

Yes I do think we have the pieces but believe it or not, Nash is not the best PG on this roster for the Triangle...That would be Meeks or Blake.

Why is that?

Nash is the best passing PG on this roster...AND he's the best shooting PG (in fact, he's the best shooter...period).

Nash is actually the best shooter at that position in NBA history.

He will fit in any offense, if he wants it. Kobe, Gasol, Artest, Jamison...at their age, they won't.

#30 West Coast

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:19 AM

Yes I do think we have the pieces but believe it or not, Nash is not the best PG on this roster for the Triangle...That would be Meeks or Blake.

Notice, I said FOR THE TRIANGLE.

Our best TRIANGLE C? Pau
Best TRIANGLE PF? Jamison
Best TRIANGLE SF? Ebanks or Kobe


The starting Unit we have now would not be ideal...bringing Phil and the Triangle back would require a major overhaul of the players (mindsets/habits) OR tweaking the Triangle past the point of recognition...either seems to be like forcing a square peg in a TRIANGLE hole...


Phil's last stand with the Lakers was FAR from perfect...but we choose to remember what we would like to remember.


And the next coach needs to commit to coaching Dwight for the foreseeable future, not until he's tired of winning (or wants to go out on top instead of a loss)...I don't see that in Phil.


You're usually a pretty good poster on here but you are dead wrong on this.

The pieces we have are perfect for the triangle. The Triangle at its best involves ball movement, in and out of the post, around the perimeter. Dwight Howard is arguably the best passing big man in the league right now. Pau Gasol is perfect where he is at and the triangle would move him closer to the basket where he is most effective.

The triangle has never required a true point guard. Nash is very creative and Phil would allow him to run his own sets from time to time with the pick and roll. People forget under Phil how much two man game Kobe and Pau played which was deadly during games. Nash would fit in because he can shoot the ball. Far better shooter than Derek Fisher was in his time here.

Arguments can be made about the SF spot, but we already one a title with Metta there when the triangle was being run so that's not an issue. Ebanks could be really good in the triangle off the bench but he may not be back this season with this DUI thing.

Jamison would thrive in this offense and he will do it off the bench that gives our team a better look and should improve our bench efficiency.

Fisher/Kobe/Ron/Gasol/Bynum.... We won a title with that, why wouldn't Nash/Kobe/Ron/Gasol/Howard not be just as good?

Personally I think you're really underestimating Phil Jackson and his ability to put players in position to succeed. He defines roles and gets players to buy in.

#31 GCMD

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:21 AM

2008 championship roster -

Derek Fisher / Jordan Farmar / Sun Yue
Kobe Bryant / Shannon Brown / Sasha Vujacic
Lamar Odom/ Trevor Ariza / Luke Walton / Adam Morrison
Pau Gasol / Josh Powell
Andrew Bynum / DJ Mbenga

2009 championship roster -

Derek Fisher / Jordan Farmar
Kobe Bryant / Shannon Brown / Sasha Vujacic
Ron Artest / Adam Morrison / Luke Walton
Pau Gasol / Lamar Odom / Josh Powell
Andrew Bynum / DJ Mbenga


This year's roster:

Steve Nash / Steve Blake / Darius Morris / Chris Duhon
Kobe Bryant / Jodie Meeks
Ron Artest / Devin Ebanks / Earl Clark
Pau Gasol / Antawn Jamison
Dwight Howard / Jordan Hill / Robert Sacre




Tell me again how this year's roster cannot run the triangle.


Dwight has run what his entire career? 4-out...he and he alone occupied the paint surrounded by shooters (oversimplification but you know what I mean). He doesn't have the skills to play outside of 10 ft.

Nash has played in an offense where he dominated the ball and decision-making for the majority of his career.

Those 2 guys are not suited for the Triangle. No matter or tinkering is going to change that. Nash will become a spot up shooter (he could do it but that's a waste of his abilities). Dwight would be relegated to offensive putbacks or point blank dunks...a few dives and alleys...he won't survive as the back-to-the-basket go-to guy he thinks he's going to be.



We could run the Triangle with those 2 but that's the very definition of "square peg, round hole".

But I'm fine with Phil. It will be ok...not great...but ok.


You guys need to stop bashing anyone who doesn't mind moving on...not thinking Phil is the best choice for this roster is not a crime.

#32 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:25 AM

Your issue isn't your desire to move on. Your issue is your reasoning. It's wrong
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#33 EddieJones

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:27 AM

You're not seeing it.

Sloan is hungry.
D'Antoni is hungry.
Nash is hungry.
Dwight is hungry.
Kobe is hungry (to pass MJ).


Phil? What does he have to prove? He's walked away enough...and you want to hand the keys back over to him because he's done it before?

I want hunger to come from players - not the coach. The coach should simply be the intellect, not the emotion. A good coach can teach X's and O's. A great coach can get the most out of his players. This team needs a manager more than a coach. A team of nobodies could have success with a guy like Larry Brown, or Dantoni. But a team of stars needs a coach that commands respect simply from rings.

This team couldn't take MB seriously because he's a clown. But sir Jackson is a different story. The identity will come fast.

GCMD - you are a great poster, but I have to disagree with you on this PJ topic...

#34 GCMD

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:31 AM

Why is that?

Nash is the best passing PG on this roster...AND he's the best shooting PG (in fact, he's the best shooter...period).

Nash is actually the best shooter at that position in NBA history.

He will fit in any offense, if he wants it. Kobe, Gasol, Artest, Jamison...at their age, they won't.


LOL...point taken, though slightly exaggerated. I left out the fact that I was talking about overall, not just on offense. Meeks is a better defender, can play both positions in the offense, has enough handles and would be willing to play the off guard. Nash isn't...he could but he's not built like that nor should he have to sacrifice most of what makes him a great player. Meeks is a bigger guard (and stronger) also, more in line with what Phil likes.


And just so we get this str8, you are advocating placing one of the best floor generals in NBA history in the Triangle? You want him to switch from dominating the ball to glorified shooter? Does that make sense to the rest of you guys?

Will Nash still find a way to be productive? Yes. But why go away from what is the strength of the personnel on our roster?


And Dwight in the Triangle? LOL...I hope I'm wrong. Dude was meant for a free flowing, uptempo offense...not the Triangle.

#35 GCMD

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:35 AM

Your issue isn't your desire to move on. Your issue is your reasoning. It's wrong


That's better than not having an issue at all...

Most of you are not thinking. You're reacting emotionally. And I'm sure making decisions with your heart will work out for you just fine...


Good luck with that.




I'm out. I've registered my concerns, I welcome PJ with open arms and I leave the "analysis" to the "experts". I'm a Lakers Fan so I'm praying I'm wrong...because if I'm not, Posted Image

#36 last stand 2.0

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:37 AM

Dwight was rendered useless tonight in a free flowing offense. Couldn't even see the ball.

So that's false

Nash isn't one of our 2 best players. That would be Howard followed by Kobe. It's their team. Nash is a complimentary player. Kobe is most effective in the triangle. Dwight was incredibly effective in the princeton which is similar to the triangle

Therefore our two best players are in the best position to succeed. Pau and Nash are complimentary players. They aren't priorities

Getting d'antoni to placate Nash is hiring a coach to placate our 3rd best player at the risk of hurting the production of our 1st, 2nd, and 4th best players

Your right most of the time, wrong this time
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#37 bigvee

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:37 AM

You're not seeing it.

Sloan is hungry.
D'Antoni is hungry.
Nash is hungry.
Dwight is hungry.
Kobe is hungry (to pass MJ).


Phil? What does he have to prove? He's walked away enough...and you want to hand the keys back over to him because he's done it before?

What did Phil have to prove after 72-10? What about after his second 3-pear? What about after his 10th ring? Why did he repeat and win the 11th? How did he have the drive for it? Phil is the greatest coach of all time. That was proved long before he retired. He doesn't need to prove himself to anyone.

The best part for Phil is if he comes in here, and he brutally fails, NONE of the blame will be placed on him. Everyone will blame Kobe for taking too many shots, Pau for being soft, Dwight's back, Nash's age. All of that will blow up if we don't win this year. Phil? Everyone wants him here. If he messes up, it won't really effect him. There is no other job in all of America that will give you that. Obviously he will strive to win, and hopefully will, but any loss won't be on him. It'll be on the players, the FO, the fans. Luke Walton, ANYONE but Phil. I think that's the most attractive part of the job for Phil - the fact that he'll pretty much be regarded with higher authority over everyone.

#38 Real Deal

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:38 AM

After this post, I'm done talking about it, actually. It's just going to fall back on this idea that we should force the old Kobe, Artest, Gasol and Jamison to run a seven-second offense (the most ridiculous thing we can do) with a 39-year old Steve Nash, who is limited to 30 minutes a game because of a bad back and NOW a bruised shin that could keep him ailing for a month.

Then, the triangle just doesn't seem to work because the most dominant low post threat in the NBA today (who is Dwight, by the numbers and by sitting in front of the TV) has never played in it...yet, he has also never played in an uptempo offense.

Nash, who may be the best shooter in NBA history (top three, for sure), can't fill that triangle PG role better than Steve Blake or Jodie Meeks, because...he's a willing passer? Yet, the triangle offense is most effective with five able-bodied passers (and that's exactly why it was created).

Meanwhile, Kobe and Gasol have two championships out of it (together), and Kobe with five total rings.

Phil Jackson, who will be bringing back Kurt Rambis as his defensive assistant, has 11 coaching championships...over D'Antoni, who has none, who has openly admitted that he never coached defense while on the Suns, and who will not be bringing any credible defensive coaches along with him.

Even more astounding is the fact that Gasol, who is a true center (based on where he plays best, statistically, and where he creates the best opportunities for others), has his abilities maximized when in the second unit, at the center position, in the triangle offense.

Jamison, a stretch-four who is a willing passer, can operate on either side of the triangle...but only in specific places in a run-and-gun (trailing wing).

Finally, it's an offense that can be unstoppable when executed correctly, and as long as you don't have two players filling the post (Dwight doesn't have to do that, since he can actually move around and still attack the rim from a face-up position), you're good to go.

I guess we need both of our guys shooting the ball at the four and five, though. God forbid we bring in two guys like Luc Longley and Dennis Rodman, especially that Rodman guy, who was basically like Dwight, except five times less offensively-talented. And, oh wow, bringing Bill Wennington and Dickey Simpkins off the bench, also. Might as well stick all four five feet from the rim all game long.

I bet that 1995-96 Bulls team was awful, trying to run the triangle with those horrible offensive players in their frontcourt.

#39 Cowboys&LakersFan

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:42 AM

You forget that Kobe was on one leg during those playoffs? He couldn't do much due to injuries and he even mentioned in his post game tonight that it left a bad taste in his mouth because he couldn't give it his all in Phil's final season. It wasn't anything Dallas did to limit Kobe.

Do agree though that the team looked burned out after three straight trips to the finals. I always said too that year that the Lakers needed a big roster move to change the team dynamic and it never happened (that's the year Melo was rumored for Bynum). We essentially were going for the Finals for the fourth straight year with the same exact team.

Umm I clearly mentioned that Kobe didn't have that same spring aka he was playing hurt. You still have to credit Dallas. They played great defense on him and Shawn Marion in particular. They had a great defensive scheme which kept Kobe out of the paint and off the free throw line and forced him to shoot long jumpers. It was a combo of both. He was hurt, but also played against a terrific defense.
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#40 GCMD

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Posted November 10, 2012 - 12:45 AM

Ok...one more and I'm really gone...


Phil's ultimate desire was to beat Red....11-10, accomplished. He did everything else along the way.


As for Dwight tonight, really? That comment doesn't warrant a response. All of the stuff that went on and all of the pieces we were missing (a coach, system, starting PG) and you point to that as proof?



You'll see...Phil is the greatest coach of all time...does that mean this roster fits his system? No.


Phil and the Triangle are not a "one size fits all" type package.



But it's a moot point.

Jerry wants Phil.
Dwight wants Phil.
Kobe wants Phil.

What I or you want is irrelevant.


Moving on. We'll pick up this discussion later in the season...




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