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#2541 Majesty

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 01:47 AM

Josh Smith would be great, but I seriously doubt Atlanta is dumb enough to take anyone not named Kobe or Dwight, and we'd be dumb to make that trade.

As far as what Nash wants, that's really too bad. They are both reluctant scorers...one a big man fully capable of getting into the post and shooting a higher percentage, the other a PG that could shoot 50/40/90 this season AND average at least 15-20 a night...but neither are doing that, and neither are playing any kind of defense.

So, because of that, both can stand behind Kobe, not in front of him. At the end of the day, this offense, this franchise...it's built around Kobe Bryant. The defense can be centered around Dwight and Kobe. Everyone else falls into place. If we have to slow the game down, and dump the ball into Dwight, to give Kobe rest, that's what needs to happen. That doesn't mean we run Darius Morris at the two-guard position, and think that we can work an offense that completely ignores the P&R.

How much P&R did we even see tonight? Hardly any.

Until we start playing that way, we're going to continue to struggle as a 6-8th seeded team.

The [expletive] rotations need to go, the multiple fives need to cease, the quick offense has to stop, this idea that Ron Artest is our second option needs to be trashed, and this strategy to let Gasol shoot threes and Howard be ignored down low is going to CRIPPLE us by April.

As long as we're running Kobe Desperation ISO and Nash offense all game long, we are done. Kobe's teammates, and Mike D'Antoni, need to step up and change.


Tonight I was more frustrated watching Dwight not look for passes off the pick and roll and at times Pau did as well.

There were times off pick and roll where Nash looked like he was going to pass it to either Gasol or Dwight but had to hesitate because they weren't looking to score.

Well Gasol did late, but it was too little too late.

Wasn't happy with seeing Howard float offensively when Nash was looking for him. It seemed early on(Cause Pau AND Nash were getting him looks) when Howard would get fouled, he seemed frustrated at the refs and decided "if they aren't gonna call fouls I'm gonna stop looking to shoot" and it cost us. As he played very uninspired basketball down the stretch that he wasn't looking for Kobe to pass him the ball after a pick and roll which is basically what we've been running late in games(though through Howard and Nash) showed all that really needed to be seen. Dwight wasn't looking to score anymore.

he missed some easy shots early and was frustrated the refs didn't call fouls, so he disengaged himself from the offense cause he was frustrated. He needs to get over that, and fast.

Pau was dealing with that too once his first few shots didn't go down. I remember Nash found him perfectly off a pick and roll and Pau held the ball for about 4 seconds looking at the basket before he finally decided to take the mid range jumper.


It's hard for Nash to do what's right when the guys he's passing it too aren't gonna take the shot the moment Nash get's them the ball in a good situation.

Nash in his mind as he's said keeps track of when guys are on or off or are playing a certain way.

So when Nash watched both Gasol AND Howard hesitating to take shots off of looks he was giving them, he started passing along the wing more cause they were the only guys taking shots or looking for anything.

That's what messed up a lot of stuff tonight.

That's what I saw for the most part anyway.

We can't afford Gasol and Howard playing "aloof" on the offensive end since they are main area of attack in this pick and roll offense. So I think one of the reasons we didn't run pick and roll a lot tonight was because early on it was pretty much established that our two main weapons out of the pick and roll were 'floating' tonight.

And that makes it hard on Nash who then is gonna hesitate to pass them the ball because they aren't looking for a shot or to be aggressive.

Early on in the game when they were both engaged, Nash gave them looks and looks. They missed their opportunities and became passive or got frustrated cause the refs weren't calling fouls, and shut off. Which left little option except the wing players. Pretty much why I felt things went bad tonight on that front. Dwight not getting his first field goal till the 3rd quarter was upsetting. Watching him never look for the pass off a pick and roll with Nash and or Kobe that he's probably ran in practice a thousand times cause he's "floating" after 3 days off was infuriating.

Edited by Majesty, January 02, 2013 - 01:51 AM.

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#2542 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 02:11 AM

Tonight I was more frustrated watching Dwight not look for passes off the pick and roll and at times Pau did as well.

There were times off pick and roll where Nash looked like he was going to pass it to either Gasol or Dwight but had to hesitate because they weren't looking to score.

Well Gasol did late, but it was too little too late.

Wasn't happy with seeing Howard float offensively when Nash was looking for him. It seemed early on(Cause Pau AND Nash were getting him looks) when Howard would get fouled, he seemed frustrated at the refs and decided "if they aren't gonna call fouls I'm gonna stop looking to shoot" and it cost us. As he played very uninspired basketball down the stretch that he wasn't looking for Kobe to pass him the ball after a pick and roll which is basically what we've been running late in games(though through Howard and Nash) showed all that really needed to be seen. Dwight wasn't looking to score anymore.

he missed some easy shots early and was frustrated the refs didn't call fouls, so he disengaged himself from the offense cause he was frustrated. He needs to get over that, and fast.

Pau was dealing with that too once his first few shots didn't go down. I remember Nash found him perfectly off a pick and roll and Pau held the ball for about 4 seconds looking at the basket before he finally decided to take the mid range jumper.


It's hard for Nash to do what's right when the guys he's passing it too aren't gonna take the shot the moment Nash get's them the ball in a good situation.

Nash in his mind as he's said keeps track of when guys are on or off or are playing a certain way.

So when Nash watched both Gasol AND Howard hesitating to take shots off of looks he was giving them, he started passing along the wing more cause they were the only guys taking shots or looking for anything.

That's what messed up a lot of stuff tonight.

That's what I saw for the most part anyway.

We can't afford Gasol and Howard playing "aloof" on the offensive end since they are main area of attack in this pick and roll offense. So I think one of the reasons we didn't run pick and roll a lot tonight was because early on it was pretty much established that our two main weapons out of the pick and roll were 'floating' tonight.

And that makes it hard on Nash who then is gonna hesitate to pass them the ball because they aren't looking for a shot or to be aggressive.

Early on in the game when they were both engaged, Nash gave them looks and looks. They missed their opportunities and became passive or got frustrated cause the refs weren't calling fouls, and shut off. Which left little option except the wing players. Pretty much why I felt things went bad tonight on that front. Dwight not getting his first field goal till the 3rd quarter was upsetting. Watching him never look for the pass off a pick and roll with Nash and or Kobe that he's probably ran in practice a thousand times cause he's "floating" after 3 days off was infuriating.

All of this writing could have been said in one sentence.
Dwight and Gasol have to be more aggressive in the pick and roll.

#2543 Majesty

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 02:17 AM

All of this writing could have been said in one sentence.
Dwight and Gasol have to be more aggressive in the pick and roll.


Gracias.

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#2544 Real Deal

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 03:36 AM

It's the difference in styles. Like I wrote earlier, somewhere in this topic, Dwight Howard has never played with a PG that feeds him the ball. Howard is a superstar that gets shooters their shots. His presence down low allows the ball to swing from one corner to the other.

Meanwhile, Gasol is scared to score. He has always been that way. He has never averaged 15+ shots a night in his career.

Aside from an old, out-of-prime Gary Payton, Kobe has never had a true PG on his team (NVE was out of LA by the time Kobe was KOBE).

On the other hand, Steve Nash has never played alongside a finesse PF like Pau Gasol, who lacks in athleticism and can pass the ball VERY well (Amare was super athletic and more of a Dwight in regards to the P&R...and Dirk was a shooter), and in no way, shape or form has he had a player on his team like Kobe Bryant.

So what has to happen? We find a way to incorporate everyone into the offense. What offense, exactly? Not the one we currently think we can run, with Nash feeding everyone.

1) Nash feeding Kobe and Dwight turns them into all-star level players, ripping the superstar label from their chest. It means that our two best on the court can't draw double teams with the ball in their hands, which means they are easier to defend.

2) Nash feeding inconsistent shooters turns us into last season's Phoenix Suns team.

3) Nash feeding Pau Gasol is like two players in a hot potato game, which results in Kobe ISO with three on the clock.

-------------

This team is constructed for the 4-out/1-in motion offense that Mike Brown ran last season for Andrew Bynum, and that SVG ran in Orlando. Only problem is, Nash has to become a shooter (which he can be).

Take that offense, and install a heavy dose of P&R, and suddenly, you have everyone on the roster being able to contribute.

If Howard isn't healthy enough for it, stick Gasol's ass at the five while Dwight gets extended amounts of rest and pound teams with the 4/1 motion. Run P&R 50% of the time Dwight is out there.

The NBA coaches know all of this. MDA knows what to do. He's just a Steve Nash fanatic, and he's going to push the Lakers to run with Nash in front of them in hopes that the 39-year old offensive genius still has it in him to carry a team.

Welp...sorry, he doesn't. Teams don't need to double him anymore, the paint is too crowded for him to swoop in with one-handed uncontested layups now, and he tires easily at this point of his career.

Every loss, Kobe has that look on his face. That "I'm done" look. He's tired. He's doing what no other player has done in NBA history in 17 seasons and that age, not even Jordan, and doing it at the highest percentage of his career, all while playing 39 minutes a night with 22 shots a game.

It's January 2nd, not May 2nd, and we're about to taste the winter storm of our schedule. Things have to change.

#2545 r9fan

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 05:49 AM

I think it's obviously clear after 30 games that this team as built can not contend in the west. The lakers need to trade gasol now for multiple peices to at least have a chance. Something like Gasol for Bargnani, Lowry/Calderon, and Kleiza would go a along way in helping. All 3 players can hit the perimeter shot and all 3 would be rotation players, which we are desperately lacking epecially since we are old as s---. Personally, I'm not even going to bother watching too many games unitl a change is made.

#2546 Majesty

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 06:03 AM

I think it's obviously clear after 30 games that this team as built can not contend in the west. The lakers need to trade gasol now for multiple peices to at least have a chance. Something like Gasol for Bargnani, Lowry/Calderon, and Kleiza would go a along way in helping. All 3 players can hit the perimeter shot and all 3 would be rotation players, which we are desperately lacking epecially since we are old as s---. Personally, I'm not even going to bother watching too many games unitl a change is made.


Why... do some people...constantly..seem to...... THINK THIS WOULD BE AN UPGRADE!?!?!?!!? :no:

Edited by Majesty, January 02, 2013 - 06:03 AM.

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#2547 manaro90

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 08:23 AM

GO AWAY GASOL!!!!!

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"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."


#2548 noknife

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 08:31 AM

It's the difference in styles. Like I wrote earlier, somewhere in this topic, Dwight Howard has never played with a PG that feeds him the ball. Howard is a superstar that gets shooters their shots. His presence down low allows the ball to swing from one corner to the other.

Meanwhile, Gasol is scared to score. He has always been that way. He has never averaged 15+ shots a night in his career.

Aside from an old, out-of-prime Gary Payton, Kobe has never had a true PG on his team (NVE was out of LA by the time Kobe was KOBE).

On the other hand, Steve Nash has never played alongside a finesse PF like Pau Gasol, who lacks in athleticism and can pass the ball VERY well (Amare was super athletic and more of a Dwight in regards to the P&R...and Dirk was a shooter), and in no way, shape or form has he had a player on his team like Kobe Bryant.

So what has to happen? We find a way to incorporate everyone into the offense. What offense, exactly? Not the one we currently think we can run, with Nash feeding everyone.

1) Nash feeding Kobe and Dwight turns them into all-star level players, ripping the superstar label from their chest. It means that our two best on the court can't draw double teams with the ball in their hands, which means they are easier to defend.

2) Nash feeding inconsistent shooters turns us into last season's Phoenix Suns team.

3) Nash feeding Pau Gasol is like two players in a hot potato game, which results in Kobe ISO with three on the clock.

-------------

This team is constructed for the 4-out/1-in motion offense that Mike Brown ran last season for Andrew Bynum, and that SVG ran in Orlando. Only problem is, Nash has to become a shooter (which he can be).

Take that offense, and install a heavy dose of P&R, and suddenly, you have everyone on the roster being able to contribute.

If Howard isn't healthy enough for it, stick Gasol's ass at the five while Dwight gets extended amounts of rest and pound teams with the 4/1 motion. Run P&R 50% of the time Dwight is out there.

The NBA coaches know all of this. MDA knows what to do. He's just a Steve Nash fanatic, and he's going to push the Lakers to run with Nash in front of them in hopes that the 39-year old offensive genius still has it in him to carry a team.

Welp...sorry, he doesn't. Teams don't need to double him anymore, the paint is too crowded for him to swoop in with one-handed uncontested layups now, and he tires easily at this point of his career.

Every loss, Kobe has that look on his face. That "I'm done" look. He's tired. He's doing what no other player has done in NBA history in 17 seasons and that age, not even Jordan, and doing it at the highest percentage of his career, all while playing 39 minutes a night with 22 shots a game.

It's January 2nd, not May 2nd, and we're about to taste the winter storm of our schedule. Things have to change.


Agree. The lakers have had an easy schedule. That is about to change. I expect full blown panic by the 15th.

#2549 r9fan

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 10:19 AM

Why... do some people...constantly..seem to...... THINK THIS WOULD BE AN UPGRADE!?!?!?!!? :no:

right now i am an upgrade over gasol, and that's obviously not saying much.

#2550 Oasis Lover

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 10:30 AM

I dreamt Gasol for Bosh last nite

#2551 TheOriginalCZM

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 10:45 AM

Gasoft here for life baby.

#2552 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 12:46 PM

Here's a cool trade:
Gasol to the kings
DMC to the celtics
Sully, fab melo, lee, and a pick to ATL
Celtics 2014 pick and cash to OKC
Jsmooth and Lamb to LA

Don't ask why I did this. Bored.




#2553 ツ  

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 01:05 PM

Here's a cool trade:
Gasol to the kings
DMC to the celtics
Sully, fab melo, lee, and a pick to ATL
Celtics 2014 pick and cash to OKC
Jsmooth and Lamb to LA

Don't ask why I did this. Bored.

Is a 5 team trade possible? LOL

#2554 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 01:07 PM

Is a 5 team trade possible? LOL

Lol idk. It probably is but if not then you can just take out the whole thunder part

#2555 MDI

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 01:11 PM


9u6kvo.png

 

Props to sidthekid871


#2556 MDI

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 01:25 PM

lol keep watching Pau from the 1.30 mark and after

[media][media][/media[/media]]

Edited by MDI, January 02, 2013 - 01:27 PM.

9u6kvo.png

 

Props to sidthekid871


#2557 Alpha Four

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 03:59 PM

Honestly, who/what can we even get for Pau anymore? He's got tendonitis and whatever his foot has. A team would either have to be desperate and/or stupid to trade for him. He won't get traded this season at least...the last thing we need is MORE chemistry issues.

MDADefense_zpsb51f57fb.jpg


#2558 hotpocket

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 04:07 PM

Honestly, who/what can we even get for Pau anymore? He's got tendonitis and whatever his foot has. A team would either have to be desperate and/or stupid to trade for him. He won't get traded this season at least...the last thing we need is MORE chemistry issues.

Bargnani or Williams are pretty much our only options if they haven't been scared off yet.

If I was a GM from another team I wouldn't come near Gasol.

#2559 Alpha Four

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 04:25 PM

Bargnani


Than this forum would demand to trade Bargs for being "soft"

MDADefense_zpsb51f57fb.jpg


#2560 MrKnowItAll

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 04:42 PM

In all honesty this team doesn't NEED a trade to compete for a championship, we just NEED 3 things:
1. We need to cut our turnovers to where we average maybe 12-14 a game
2. We need Dwight to be the "Serge Ibaka" for us, not based on his play, but we need him to want it more than anyone on our team. He needs to be the one that gives those speaches where he tells them to get through it.
3. And last but not least we NEED dantoni to stop trying to prove to the world that you can win his way. He needs to change and make adjustments. He has to make sure Kobe shoots no more than 22 shots in a game. He needs to make sure Dwight gets shots. Mike D'antoni NEEDS to CHANGE.





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