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Pau Gasol Discussion

Pau Gasol

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#2461 KB24BlackMamba

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 07:41 PM

I´m pretty sure that we won´t win it all with Gasol. Ibaka/Bosh/Duncan will kill Gasol. We need someone who can defend the 4 and be able to put up 12-13 on the other end.
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#2462 MrKnowItAll

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 08:34 PM

You gonna blow your load over two average/slightly above average games?

You (nor anyone else) has ANYTHING to say about the games before that, or anything to say about his November numbers, or anything to say about '11-'12 playoffs, or the '10-'11 playoffs.

I'm convinced you don't know [expletive]...despite your handle.

You seriously sound like skip Bayless right now. If u bring up the 10-11 and 11-12 postseasons, I'll bring up 08-09 and 09-10 pstseasons but I'm guessing that's not fair right? My post was to say the only time you come on this site is when Pau is struggling and you keep saying the same nonsense

#2463 Majesty

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 08:50 PM

You seriously sound like skip Bayless right now. If u bring up the 10-11 and 11-12 postseasons, I'll bring up 08-09 and 09-10 pstseasons but I'm guessing that's not fair right? My post was to say the only time you come on this site is when Pau is struggling and you keep saying the same nonsense


By your logic why don't we get Michael Jordan out of retirement because the 1992 post season has more relevance than the 2002 season.

His citations of Pau are the most recent so you can't bring up the 08-09 because if that was still relevant, we wouldn't have been swept by Dallas for one, and we wouldn't have gone out in the 2nd round last year for two. So his is more relevant and recent in terms of worry than yours would be of defense.

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#2464 MrKnowItAll

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:18 PM

By your logic why don't we get Michael Jordan out of retirement because the 1992 post season has more relevance than the 2002 season.

His citations of Pau are the most recent so you can't bring up the 08-09 because if that was still relevant, we wouldn't have been swept by Dallas for one, and we wouldn't have gone out in the 2nd round last year for two. So his is more relevant and recent in terms of worry than yours would be of defense.

Actually the past 5 games have been more recent than his [expletive] so get off me. Besides why do you have to butt into every conversation. It seems like the only thing you do all day is refresh this page.

Edited by MrKnowItAll, December 30, 2012 - 09:19 PM.


#2465 Majesty

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:23 PM

Actually the past 5 games have been more recent than his [expletive] so get off me. Besides why do you have to butt into every conversation. It seems like the only thing you do all day is refresh this page.


Three games don't outweigh recent history that shows that even if he has a good season he has come up short in the playoffs, so now he is having his worst season. So sorry but the majority of recent games are what had him averaging 12 and 8.

So 3 games better than that isn't going to be enough for the vast majority of fans that don't react quickly to one game and will only get their hopes up if they see a consistent game. We're looking at recent and consistency. Not just three good performances means he's off the hook.

HE Needs to keep it up, because as recent history as far back as last year when he was averaging 17-10 he shrunk in the playoffs. This year he was going 12-8 and shooting 40% so it's safe to assume worse, if he stays at that level.


Till he plays this good at a consistent pace that his averages go up via monthlies then he deserves to have an eye kept on him.

Edited by Majesty, December 30, 2012 - 09:24 PM.

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#2466 Japago

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:35 PM

Three games don't outweigh recent history that shows that even if he has a good season he has come up short in the playoffs, so now he is having his worst season. So sorry but the majority of recent games are what had him averaging 12 and 8.

So 3 games better than that isn't going to be enough for the vast majority of fans that don't react quickly to one game and will only get their hopes up if they see a consistent game. We're looking at recent and consistency. Not just three good performances means he's off the hook.

HE Needs to keep it up, because as recent history as far back as last year when he was averaging 17-10 he shrunk in the playoffs. This year he was going 12-8 and shooting 40% so it's safe to assume worse, if he stays at that level.


Till he plays this good at a consistent pace that his averages go up via monthlies then he deserves to have an eye kept on him.


I agree. But It's funny you understand that the season needs to be looked at as a whole when it comes to Pau, but not when it comes to Metta.

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#2467 MrKnowItAll

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:38 PM

Three games don't outweigh recent history that shows that even if he has a good season he has come up short in the playoffs, so now he is having his worst season. So sorry but the majority of recent games are what had him averaging 12 and 8.

So 3 games better than that isn't going to be enough for the vast majority of fans that don't react quickly to one game and will only get their hopes up if they see a consistent game. We're looking at recent and consistency. Not just three good performances means he's off the hook.

HE Needs to keep it up, because as recent history as far back as last year when he was averaging 17-10 he shrunk in the playoffs. This year he was going 12-8 and shooting 40% so it's safe to assume worse, if he stays at that level.


Till he plays this good at a consistent pace that his averages go up via monthlies then he deserves to have an eye kept on him.

Ok then we can just bash metta because he played like [expletive] last year and the year before.

#2468 Majesty

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:40 PM

I agree. But It's funny you understand that the season needs to be looked at as a whole when it comes to Pau, but not when it comes to Metta.


metta's putting up better numbers than Pau as the 4th scorer on the team, is the only other guy than Kobe that would consistently take some pressure off of Kobe and was often time being the 2nd to 3rd leading scorer on the team twice off the bench and has been putting up some of his best numbers he's put up in the last 3 years and has been one of the most consistently good Lakers this year.

Him and Pau aren't the same, stop trying :)


Ok then we can just bash metta because he played like [expletive] last year and the year before.


metta closed the season playing the best basketball he's played and it carried on into the playoffs, he came into this year in shape and playing the best basketball he's played in years and has been a consistently good player from the end of last year into this year.


Gasol ended last year playing the worst basketball he's ever played, and entered this year out of shape and playing the worst basketball statistically in his career.

You can't compare the two.

One has been on the rise, the other has been on the decline.

Only an idiot would try to compare them.

then again look who I'm talking to :)

Edited by Majesty, December 30, 2012 - 09:42 PM.

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#2469 Japago

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:42 PM

metta's putting up better numbers than Pau as the 4th scorer on the team, is the only other guy than Kobe that would consistently take some pressure off of Kobe and was often time being the 2nd to 3rd leading scorer on the team twice off the bench and has been putting up some of his best numbers he's put up in the last 3 years and has been one of the most consistently good Lakers this year.

Him and Pau aren't the same, stop trying :)


I mean for his performance last season. You kept defending him by saying he played well at the end of last season, and said it didn't matter how awful he was throughout most of last season.

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#2470 Majesty

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:45 PM

I mean for his performance last season. You kept defending him by saying he played well at the end of last season, and said it didn't matter how awful he was throughout most of last season.


And when I criticize Pau I use THE SAME STANDARD :)

I say that Pau ended the season playing the worst basketball of his career and entered this season playing the worst basketball in his career so I criticize.

Metta ended last season playing the best basketball in years he's played and came INTO this season playing the best basketball in years so I don't.

They're on two OPPOSITE sides of the spectrum and performance. And thus I critique them two different ways.

One has been playing better and on the rise from the end of last season to this season.
The other has been playing worse and was on the decline from the end of last season into this season.

So why are you trying to make them the same? The points you're trying to make or compare have nothing in common :laughing:


You're basically saying

YOU CRITICIZE PAU FOR PLAYING CRAPPY AT THE END OF LAST YEAR INTO THIS YEAR!
BUT YOU DON'T CRITICIZE METTA FOR PLAYING GREAT AT THE END OF LAST YEAR AND INTO THIS YEAR!!

Why should I?

If I judged Pau by his 17-10 season last year you'd have a point.

But I'm not, I'm criticizing his play from the end of the season into this one.
Just like I'm judging Metta's play from the end of last season into this one.

Metta's has been VERY good near the conclusion of last season and has carried over into this season putting up his best numbers in years.
Gasol's was VERY bad near the conclusion of last season and THAT also carried over into this season(while skipping the Olympics) putting up his worst numbers EVER in his career.


So how the heck are you making sense asking me why I'm not criticizing Metta?

If I go by the same standards I critique for Gasol, then I'm going to not be critiquing Metta anyway and still critiquing Gasol. So your point has no validation because Gasol and Metta are not comparable :)

Edited by Majesty, December 30, 2012 - 09:48 PM.

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#2471 Japago

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:46 PM

And when I criticize Pau I use THE SAME STANDARD :)

I say that Pau ended the season playing the worst basketball of his career and entered this season playing the worst basketball in his career so I criticize.

Metta ended last season playing the best basketball in years he's played and came INTO this season playing the best basketball of his career so I don't.

They're on two OPPOSITE sides of the spectrum and performance.

So why are you trying to make them the same? The points you're trying to make or compare have nothing in common :laughing:


But using the same standard, Metta deserves blame for being awful for most of the last few seasons.

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#2472 iDreamShake

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:46 PM

Actually the past 5 games have been more recent than his [expletive] so get off me. Besides why do you have to butt into every conversation. It seems like the only thing you do all day is refresh this page.


its all i do.. not just this page tho,i have other favorite threads,and im on another laker forum too, so my hair thins quicker

#2473 MrKnowItAll

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:50 PM

metta's putting up better numbers than Pau as the 4th scorer on the team, is the only other guy than Kobe that would consistently take some pressure off of Kobe and was often time being the 2nd to 3rd leading scorer on the team twice off the bench and has been putting up some of his best numbers he's put up in the last 3 years and has been one of the most consistently good Lakers this year.

Him and Pau aren't the same, stop trying :)

EDIT: in my opinion

Fixed

#2474 Paris

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 09:55 PM

124 pages. Pau should've been traded 100 pages ago tbh.


#2475 Majesty

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 10:00 PM

But using the same standard, Metta deserves blame for being awful for most of the last few seasons.


Are you talking about the year he helped win us the title against the Celtics?

Or are you talking about the year he was dealing with nerve damage and could barely lift off the ground?

See here is the thing. I did critique him when he played terribly, but when the guy had back injuries and nerve damage as a problem, I waited the next season to see how he would play when he came around.

And how did he play when he was finally healthy and in shape and all that nerve damage was dealt with? He was putting up the best numbers he'd put up in years to close the season as well as in the playoffs when he played it was still at that high level. And then I waited to see how he'd come into this year, he came in, in the best shape of his career and has been having a career year that he hasn't played at since he was a Rocket. So why am I gonna criticize that?

NOW using the SAME standard for Pau Gasol.

Last year he was putting up 17-10 whilst not being as aggressive as I'd liked. But 17-10 is still great and I took it. Then in the playoffs(and mind you he DIDN'T have the excuse of injury at all) he came into the playoffs and put up 12-8. Which was a severe DROP OFF from his season averages and one of the most dramatic drop offs I've seen in a player in a VERY long time.

So I criticized him for playing bad, just as I gave metta credit for getting healthy and playing better once he was.

So I went into the off-season wondering if Pau was done as an elite player. Then he goes into the Olympics and blows the freaking roof off the place. Playing AMAZING basketball!! So I assume "well darn, maybe the playoffs was just a fluke, maybe he wasn't mentally there, he could play good this year!" and I waited to see how he came into camp and started the season.

Whereas Metta came into camp in the best shape of his life and played at an extremely high level still. Pau who had JUST played in the Olympics at an outstanding level and called himself "a beast" came into camp OUT OF SHAPE and through the season shot career lows in points, rebounds and field goal percentage!


So the fact you're even trying to compare what happened with Metta and how he's responded to what happened to Gasol and how he's responded is just silly. Stop trying to defend Gasol or trying to compare the situation to Metta World Peace. They are two completely different situations and two completely different reactions. Whereas when I just show you how I judged to criticize them both it makes perfect sense why I would criticize Pau and not mention Metta World Peace.

Is Metta putting up the worst numbers of his career? No
Is Pau? Yes

Did Metta close last season putting up his best numbers while healthy and carry it over into the playoffs? Yes
Did Pau? No

Did Metta come into this year in shape and play the best basketball he's played in the past 4 years? Yes
Has Pau? No

Should I criticize Metta like I criticize Pau? No
Why? Read above


And that's game. thanks for playing :)

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#2476 Japago

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 10:00 PM

And when I criticize Pau I use THE SAME STANDARD :)

I say that Pau ended the season playing the worst basketball of his career and entered this season playing the worst basketball in his career so I criticize.

Metta ended last season playing the best basketball in years he's played and came INTO this season playing the best basketball in years so I don't.

They're on two OPPOSITE sides of the spectrum and performance. And thus I critique them two different ways.

One has been playing better and on the rise from the end of last season to this season.
The other has been playing worse and was on the decline from the end of last season into this season.

So why are you trying to make them the same? The points you're trying to make or compare have nothing in common :laughing:


You're basically saying

YOU CRITICIZE PAU FOR PLAYING CRAPPY AT THE END OF LAST YEAR INTO THIS YEAR!
BUT YOU DON'T CRITICIZE METTA FOR PLAYING GREAT AT THE END OF LAST YEAR AND INTO THIS YEAR!!

Why should I?

If I judged Pau by his 17-10 season last year you'd have a point.

But I'm not, I'm criticizing his play from the end of the season into this one.
Just like I'm judging Metta's play from the end of last season into this one.

Metta's has been VERY good near the conclusion of last season and has carried over into this season putting up his best numbers in years.
Gasol's was VERY bad near the conclusion of last season and THAT also carried over into this season(while skipping the Olympics) putting up his worst numbers EVER in his career.


So how the heck are you making sense asking me why I'm not criticizing Metta?

If I go by the same standards I critique for Gasol, then I'm going to not be critiquing Metta anyway and still critiquing Gasol. So your point has no validation because Gasol and Metta are not comparable :)


I'm going by the basic premise that Pau isn't off the hook for this season for being horrible after a good stretch of games. I agree with that. You should've just applied that to Metta after last season.
Metta played well at the end of the season, but as a WHOLE he was terrible last season. That means last season he was terrible.

This season is separate. He's been good all season. I'm not talking about that.

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#2477 Japago

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 10:04 PM

Are you talking about the year he helped win us the title against the Celtics?

Or are you talking about the year he was dealing with nerve damage and could barely lift off the ground?

See here is the thing. I did critique him when he played terribly, but when the guy had back injuries and nerve damage as a problem, I waited the next season to see how he would play when he came around.

And how did he play when he was finally healthy and in shape and all that nerve damage was dealt with? He was putting up the best numbers he'd put up in years to close the season as well as in the playoffs when he played it was still at that high level. And then I waited to see how he'd come into this year, he came in, in the best shape of his career and has been having a career year that he hasn't played at since he was a Rocket. So why am I gonna criticize that?

NOW using the SAME standard for Pau Gasol.

Last year he was putting up 17-10 whilst not being as aggressive as I'd liked. But 17-10 is still great and I took it. Then in the playoffs(and mind you he DIDN'T have the excuse of injury at all) he came into the playoffs and put up 12-8. Which was a severe DROP OFF from his season averages and one of the most dramatic drop offs I've seen in a player in a VERY long time.

So I criticized him for playing bad, just as I gave metta credit for getting healthy and playing better once he was.

So I went into the off-season wondering if Pau was done as an elite player. Then he goes into the Olympics and blows the freaking roof off the place. Playing AMAZING basketball!! So I assume "well darn, maybe the playoffs was just a fluke, maybe he wasn't mentally there, he could play good this year!" and I waited to see how he came into camp and started the season.

Whereas Metta came into camp in the best shape of his life and played at an extremely high level still. Pau who had JUST played in the Olympics at an outstanding level and called himself "a beast" came into camp OUT OF SHAPE and through the season shot career lows in points, rebounds and field goal percentage!


So the fact you're even trying to compare what happened with Metta and how he's responded to what happened to Gasol and how he's responded is just silly. Stop trying to defend Gasol or trying to compare the situation to Metta World Peace. They are two completely different situations and two completely different reactions. Whereas when I just show you how I judged to criticize them both it makes perfect sense why I would criticize Pau and not mention Metta World Peace.

Is Metta putting up the worst numbers of his career? No
Is Pau? Yes

Did Metta close last season putting up his best numbers while healthy and carry it over into the playoffs? Yes
Did Pau? No

Did Metta come into this year in shape and play the best basketball he's played in the past 4 years? Yes
Has Pau? No

Should I criticize Metta like I criticize Pau? No
Why? Read above


And that's game. thanks for playing :)


I just don't see why you gave Metta much longer of a leash than Pau. Metta was playing terribly for far longer before the end of last season than Pau is currently.

Maybe the difference for me is that I don't use injuries as an excuse for him. He was playing on it for season, so I didn't take it seriously.

Metta was awful for almost 2 entire seasons. Pau has been awful for 2 postseasons and the beginning of this season. Metta's awful stretch was a lot longer.

Pau is currently struggling and Metta is playing well. There's no arguing that. I'm just saying Metta was given a huge break for being terrible for as long as he was.

Edited by Japago, December 30, 2012 - 10:09 PM.

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#2478 Majesty

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 10:16 PM

I'm going by the basic premise that Pau isn't off the hook for this season for being horrible after a good stretch of games. I agree with that. You should've just applied that to Metta after last season.
Metta played well at the end of the season, but as a WHOLE he was terrible last season. That means last season he was terrible.

This season is separate. He's been good all season. I'm not talking about that.


I did criticize Metta when he played bad last season HOWEVER I was also of the knowledge that he was dealing with nerve damage and injury that prevented him from working out in the off-season or getting the treatment as well.

Which I cited many many times :)

SO as I said, I was going to use the season to see if Metta would ever come back and play well, to see that if his injuries had faded and his nerve damage was gone if he'd play well.

AND I was very very clear about when I saw small improvements happening. More lift in his shot, the ball starting to arc more. Stuff like that, so I pretty much said after I saw those changes that he was going to play like the Artest we were expecting. Because I saw consistent improvement over the course of the season. That's what I watch for. I don't look for 3 good games and then HE'S BACK OMG!!! I looked at his steady improvement during the season and was well aware of what was holding him back so I made it apparent when I felt he'd be "back" and I was right.

When it came to Pau last season I criticized his aggression but was still satisfied that he put up[ 17-10. Then all that fell off and he put up 12/8 in the playoffs for no reason which is why I criticized him for that.


I think you mistake blind criticism for justified criticism. I acknowledged when Metta was playing terribly last year but I also stated the things I saw(his lift, his shot was flat, his body didn't look like he was in shape) and when he started showing improvements(the lift was returning, his body was moving better his shot was arcing more) I started mentioning it. And backing him when he'd say he was on his way back even when people were laughing.

WITH Pau this year I am doing the same thing, I am watching him for improvement and THUS FAR I criticize him for his failed play thus far in this season and where I am not seeing improvement.

See the thing with Gasol is that it isn't his health or nerve damage or tendinitis that holds him back, it's his mind and his confidence. So even when criticizing the things about Pau this year along with what was criticized about MWP last year.

With Metta it was all physical, with Pau it's all MENTAL.

So even THAT isn't the same. You can't make the point you keep trying to make because both are completely different cases and always will be.

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#2479 Japago

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 10:24 PM

Pau is also dealing with injury issues. He has bad knees that actually cost him games this season unlike Metta and now plantar fasciitis.

I guess I see what you're saying. You're making a distinction based on what you see. I think Pau is also dealing with physical issues though. He's been playing so many minutes the last few years with the lack of depth on this team and Bynum missing so much time.

I just think Pau deserves more times(as far as public opinion) as well since Metta was afforded that too.

I think the Lakers may not give him that since the Lakers are under a lot more pressure to win then they have the last few years, which I understand.

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#2480 GCMD

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Posted December 30, 2012 - 10:26 PM

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I will find Kuma. I will use my Nash vision, with my Kobe assassin skill set plus I will have my Dwight shield.

I will find you-Liam Neeson Voice.


Noone got it...so here...

Kuma...





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