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Pau Gasol Discussion

Pau Gasol

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#1981 West Coast

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 01:46 PM

Where is the bias? For what reason?

Is it because he's a Euro? I've always liked Dirk (when he was in his prime).

It's because he's...uh, a Raptor? I like Ed Davis, a lot.

Maybe his face? Rondo sure is ugly, but I'd want him here in a heartbeat.

Could be his name? It's really hard to pronounce, but I did win five-consecutive spelling bees from the 4th-8th grade, so that's not too much of a problem for me.

Ah...is this kind of like the stats thing? You just kinda throw it out there, shake your head up and down, and walk off without concrete proof of it?


Five consecutive spelling bees?! That's impressive.

#1982 Honey Boo Boo

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 01:49 PM

TLN spelling bee contest lets do it.
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#1983 Real Deal

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 01:53 PM

Five consecutive spelling bees?! That's impressive.

LOL, thanks. Would have been six, but I threw up in the hallway (had the flu) ten minutes before my spelling bee in the 3rd grade, haha...didn't get to participate. :sick:

#1984 West Coast

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 01:56 PM

LOL, thanks. Would have been six, but I threw up in the hallway (had the flu) ten minutes before my spelling bee in the 3rd grade, haha...didn't get to participate. :sick:


You were just biased towards the third grade.

#1985 GCMD

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 02:27 PM

65 regular season games, and 23 playoff games that season.


Bynum and Pau didn't play together...like I said, LO/Pau started...and Bynum did not finish the game on the floor...so...


Ugh. It amazes me how many people read one sentence of a post.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY that a low post player, and a high post player, can't co-exist...THAN you might as well say that a duo of any two big men can't work unless one is strictly a three-point shooter.

My exact words were "you should just tell us" unless I'm having trouble reading my post. Never did I say that you posted it.


Not in this offense.
Not with Pau not being aggressive.
Not with Pau's history of not playing well with a dominant big.

I did not make generalizations about 7fters playing together. I was talking about Pau's history playing with a dominant 7fter...wasn't good.


The video was posted to show you how Gasol was playing, actually, but I'm assuming (although I better not do that!) that you just didn't care. I can't give you his FG% near the rim (and tell you how bad it is) because you don't like stats, and I can't show you video of him being reluctant to do anything OR missing shots close to the rim because...maybe it's a bad thing for you?


I had already responded to that. Pau's play with and without Howard? I have talked about Pau not being aggressive ad nauseum. Doesn't make sense. I'm not defending it. He's not adjusting to the offense period. I don't understand what is going on without Dwight but we have EVIDENCE of the root of the problem with Dwight.

I don't know what you want me to say. He's sucking it up all around. We agree.



Ah, so him and Dwight CAN co-exist, but Gasol just doesn't want to.

That's speculation.

I believe that Pau has the tools to adjust and succeed...I can only speculate that he doesn't want to adjust even though I'm sure he wants to succeed.

Sounds to me like Gasol wants to play center, get really physical, and bust ass down low like Shaq Diesel.


He's never done that. What he has done is used his body and skills to score efficiently CLOSE to the rim. He has trouble getting around faster post players from the high post but when he's at the rim, he uses his posts moves and skills to score quickly. He's also a good post passer. He's not a bruiser. He's also not a tweener. 10 feet and out, if he's not shooting it, he's not efficient.

Newsflash: he doesn't do it by himself, with Dwight on the bench. He doesn't want to play like a true seven-footer. I used my "eye test" on this...I see him leaking back out and letting others post up (like Jordan Hill).


You're preaching to the choir. He hasn't done well with or without Dwight. I don't get it. He went thru the same thing with Bynum. All I know is he doesn't play aggressively and he doesn't have the foot speed to score efficient from the high post (getting to the rim off the bounce). He makes too much to struggle so much in multiple spots on the floor.

Doesn't sound like Gasol can play with any non-shooting big man. Kind of odd that he was able to play so well with his own brother, though, who occupied that space down low for Spain every year they've been on the same court together.

Different offense and him and his brother have 25+ years experience playing with each other.

EXTREMELY bad example.

Genius idea, financially, because Bargnani will be making $12 million for us in 2014-15.

Dwight ($20 mill)
Kobe (probably $10-15 mill)
Nash ($10 mill)
Bargnani ($12 mill)

Looks like we have just enough money to make us players for a big-time free agent like John Lucas or Aaron Gray. Can't wait to see that.


12M as an expiring contract! This offense INFLATES trade value.

And I think it's really foolish to assume a 36y/o Kobe will get 15M...that's not going to happen.

Context, mi amigo.

And congrats on the spelling bees...I'm sure your parents were proud. And I'm not being facetious. I was always a good speller because I read so much but I was never able to win that consistently...and nowadays, I look up at least a word a post!! LOL...old age.

#1986 Jay Cee

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 02:33 PM

Holy guac, you guys go through some pretty great lengths in these debates. So much determination, doe!

#1987 Windu

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 02:38 PM

Things will be more peaceful when Gasol is gone.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#1988 GCMD

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 02:48 PM

Where is the bias? For what reason?

Is it because he's a Euro? I've always liked Dirk (when he was in his prime).

It's because he's...uh, a Raptor? I like Ed Davis, a lot.

Maybe his face? Rondo sure is ugly, but I'd want him here in a heartbeat.

Could be his name? It's really hard to pronounce, but I did win five-consecutive spelling bees from the 4th-8th grade, so that's not too much of a problem for me.

Ah...is this kind of like the stats thing? You just kinda throw it out there, shake your head up and down, and walk off without concrete proof of it?


I'm throwing that out there with no proof. You have slammed Barg for being a bad acquisition for multiple reasons...yet those same reasons apply for Anderson. Dirk was called Irk by Mavs fans many times in his career because he didn't play D. He was called a soft Euro who would never win it all just shooting from 3 until he had Tyson Chandler backing him up. Magic fans never though much of Anderson or Turk's D, though they were the reason Howard was so open in the post.

When I say bias, I base that on every time Bargs name has been brought up. You have had an immediate and strong adverse reaction to any suggestion of his acquisition. Is that wrong? No.

Bias is subjective and the right of any fan. It's a preference. It's what you like or dislike, whether rational or irrational. Out of all of the players proposed, you have dogged this one more than any other, despite there being nothing more or less wrong with him or his stats.


That's bias. Everyone has it. It was not meant to be an offensive statement.

I have admitted to my bias vs Bosh. I'm not racist (I'm black). I'm not against people from Texas. I'm not against people who are 6'10. I'm not against people who play for the Heat. I just don't like Bosh.

If you're saying you like Bargnani, that's cool...I'm wrong. From what I've seen, you like Bargnani about as much as Windu likes Pau...

I think you're taking this stuff a little to serious and personal. Lighten up my friend.

#1989 Real Deal

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:00 PM

Bynum and Pau didn't play together...like I said, LO/Pau started...and Bynum did not finish the game on the floor...so...

It was 50 regular season games total that Bynum and Gasol started together. I went ahead and counted each one.

The team's highest winning percentage was .760, when Gasol and Bynum started together. They were 38-12. That is the equivalent of a 62 or a 63-win season. Go look it up.

-------------

For everything else Gasol...he's not efficient even when he's right under the rim. This isn't 2009 anymore. I'm not even sure why that's significant...I think most of us want him gone because of that, not because of Dwight Howard and him not being able to fit. Would a 2009 Gasol fit with Howard? If he was able to rack up that high of a percentage next to Drew (who takes up more space than Howard), he could have done it with Dwight.

So, when you say you predicted that the two wouldn't be able to do this together, it's really only because Pau Gasol just isn't the player he once was...not that their styles conflict. The truth is, there IS room for Gasol to operate on the other side of the rim, but he just doesn't do it as often as he should...has nothing to do with Howard being on the floor, at all, and everything to do with Gasol just declining over the last 2-3 seasons.

#1990 David

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:07 PM

We are not going to do a trade for the sake of it. This was a crappy trade offer. Thank goodness we rejected it.

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#1991 Real Deal

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:08 PM

I'm throwing that out there with no proof. You have slammed Barg for being a bad acquisition for multiple reasons...yet those same reasons apply for Anderson.

No they don't. Take today's Ryan Anderson, and today's Andrea Bargnani...Anderson shoots 48% from the floor, 44% from three, scores more points in less minutes, grabs twice as many rebounds in less minutes, and he plays better defense (not great, but better).

Why do I want Anderson over Bargnani? Because I want a better player.


Ryan Anderson
18.3 PPG on 48.0% FG, 43.5% 3PT, 8.0 RPG, 1.0 TO/G, 32.9 MPG

Andrea Bargnani
16.8 PPG on 39.5% FG, 32.1% 3PT, 4.4 RPG, 1.8 TO/G, 34.1 MPG

:nervous:

Are those stats bad to cite, also? You even said you wanted a stretch four...and that's exactly what Anderson is.

He's also a better player.

#1992 Nak

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:09 PM

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=anf5x26

If that was indeed Minnesota's offer, we would need to find a 3rd team. Also Minnesota needs to give up more to make the trade work. Here is what I came up with for a 3way trade with Atlanta. Salaries match, check the link above.

LAL gets:
F Josh Smith
G JJ Barea
G Anthony Morrow

ATL gets:
C Nik Pekovic
F Derrick Williams
F Earl Clark
G Luke Ridnour

MIN gets:
F/C Pau Gasol
F Mike Scott
G Darius Morris
G Chris Duhon


I really love that trade proposal. The Lakers would vastly improve: 3pt shooting, athleticism, slashing and defense. If Mitch can bring those three players without losing key pieces aside from Pau, then this team will have no weaknesses.

Arguably the greatest franchise ever


#1993 muncher

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:19 PM

This is turning into Dwight Howard 2.0 thread!

#1994 GCMD

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:40 PM

For some reason, I can't quote those posts.

What I will say is I'd prefer Anderson. He's younger, cheaper and is shooting better. But he's not available. Even if he were available, it would be a very complicated trade involving a 3rd team...not easy.

Bargnani? Stats don't look good as Anderson but he's underrated...he's an underrated passer and shooter and he's more athletic than most know. He's aggressive offensively off the bounce as well as shooting the 3. He's not perfect but I never claimed he was. This isn't a competition...it's not yours vs mine. Bargs is a good fit for the offense. That's all I've ever said. You have not admitted that...and it is true.

Who else is available, fits the offense and cost half of Pau's salary?

So....

And I stand corrected on the Bynum/Pau combo starting on the last Ch'ip run. They started more than Pau/LO but Pau/LO finished the games...in fact LO avged more minutes than Bynum... (LO-Bynum) 29-24 mpg in the post season and 31.5-27.8 mpg in the regular season.

I have to go. I might not be able to post again tonight so don't take it as me dodging responses. I'll try to catch up when I can.

As always, I enjoy spirited discussion with you.

#1995 Lakers4Life

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:42 PM

Yeh I love the Josh Smith and morrow trade above.... That's really the best trade. I don't know if Atlanta accepts that but that's so fricken sweet lol.

I'm not worried about offence that'll flow eventually with Nash in the line up. The however with Josh Smith we would have by far the best interior defence in the nba.. Teams that rely on getting to the hole will struggle immensely do it mitch
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#1996 Lakers4Life

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:43 PM

This is turning into Dwight Howard 2.0 thread!


Paumare? Lol sounds wrong
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#1997 Calisupra2nr

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 03:49 PM

My head is about to explode reading the back and forth about Bargs for Pau...

At the end of the day why would Laker management want to tie up cap space they spent so long structuring to be open for 2014? That is the last year of Bargs deal but it still counts against our cap unless we trade him before FA freeze happens in the July (which probably won't happen because expiring contracts tend to be traded after FA moves have been made). So no, I would rather not give up cap space to have Bargs. The ONLY way we agree to that trade is if Nash comes back and Pau just does horrendous and all other teams drop out of trying to trade with us.

While I still think Pau will be traded, I think it happens in a 3 way. 3 ways are just always better.

#1998 Shooter871

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 04:28 PM

They need to take that Twolves offer, it just makes too much sense. Pau still has talent but not a fit on this team and we dont need another PF in return when we have two capable PF's right now(Jamison, Hill). This team is no worse with or without Pau out there, he just looks lethargic and lazy out there, most probably due to his tendinitis but nonetheless his time as a Laker is over in my opinion, he was great for the past 5 years helping the Lakers to 2 championships but its time. Pekovic would be a perfect backup to Dwight and Williams is real nice prospect to have on the team(would thrive under Dantoni) then hopefully they can get Barea in the package as well as a perfect backup to Nash(when he comes back).

Steve Nash / J.J. Barea
Kobe Bryant / Jodie Meeks
Metta World Peace / Derrick Williams
Antawn Jamison / Jordan Hill
Dwight Howard / Nikola Pekovic

Jamison is alot more comfortable at PF and a better fit at this point than Gasol, even though he may be more talented but then we get a nice young prospect(Williams) to build around with hopefully Dwight and two excellent pieces to help the team now (Pekovic, Barea).
:fisher: / :kobe: / :artest: / :pau: / :bynum:

#1999 Calisupra2nr

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 05:01 PM

Pek is an expiring contract so I do like that. I do not think we need both Hill and Pek though... Both provide similar output and skills and both would be fighting for minutes in a D'Antoni offense. I do think Jamison is a great fit next to Howard in the starting lineup.

DWill has a team option in 2013/2014 which means if the Lakers like him, they can resign a QO for about $8m+ or they can let him go to pursue big FA's. I like that flexibility. I do think we should be allowed to shed a contract or two as well as take back Shved or JJ. Pek and DWill are not worth Gasol IMO and the salaries do not match so more players would have to move in that deal.

#2000 bigfetz

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Posted December 06, 2012 - 05:03 PM

Looks like we have just enough money to make us players for a big-time free agent like John Lucas or Aaron Gray. Can't wait to see that.

Wish aaron was on the lakers. Then I could go to the games lol.





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