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Official Whine, Moan, and Complain Thread 3.0


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#301 Majesty

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 04:40 PM

Philadelphia averages 93 PPG, Washington averages 88 PPG, and Charlotte averages 95 PPG.


I don't think you're getting where I'm saying defense has improved so let me show you where we WERE

In our losses before Nash's return teams scored in this order to beat us
113, 107, 114. 117, 100 and 116 respectively

So 111 points scored in that stretch on average.

In our winning streak teams scored 102.5 since with the lone loss blowing that up.
If we counted the wins, in those 6 wins we've held teams to 98.6 ppg on average.

That's almost a 12 point difference

But we're a horrible defensive team now because of the one loss I gather?

Our defense has actually improved especially compared to where we once were. Or are you still not going to notice?

Our defense goes from allowing 111 on average to 98.6 and our assists ratio goes up from 20 to 28(which would lead the league and is 3 assists better than the Spurs) and Kobe's shooting percentage skyrockets to 56% but to you we're still the "same team" that needs "luck" to beat elite teams to you?

Yeah sure ...

Edited by Majesty, January 01, 2013 - 04:43 PM.

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#302 Japago

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 06:12 PM

I don't think you're getting where I'm saying defense has improved so let me show you where we WERE

In our losses before Nash's return teams scored in this order to beat us
113, 107, 114. 117, 100 and 116 respectively

So 111 points scored in that stretch on average.

In our winning streak teams scored 102.5 since with the lone loss blowing that up.
If we counted the wins, in those 6 wins we've held teams to 98.6 ppg on average.

That's almost a 12 point difference

But we're a horrible defensive team now because of the one loss I gather?

Our defense has actually improved especially compared to where we once were. Or are you still not going to notice?

Our defense goes from allowing 111 on average to 98.6 and our assists ratio goes up from 20 to 28(which would lead the league and is 3 assists better than the Spurs) and Kobe's shooting percentage skyrockets to 56% but to you we're still the "same team" that needs "luck" to beat elite teams to you?

Yeah sure ...


I'm not denying the Lakers' defense is improving. It was horrid before. I'm just saying it's still not very good.

The main reason why the Lakers aren't allowing 100+ points is because they're facing bad offensive teams.

Edited by Japago, January 01, 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#303 Majesty

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 06:23 PM

I'm not denying the Lakers' defense is improving. It was horrid before. I'm just saying it's still not very good.

The main reason why the Lakers aren't allowing 100+ points is because they're facing bad offensive teams.


Actually the main reason is because of us limiting turnovers and forcing teams to have to score on us in the half court.

That basically trims down what we have to worry about defensively which is why it comes down to the help defensive effort because that's how we get scored on. Low scoring teams scored a lot on us still during those bad stretches because we wee turning over the ball every other possession. I remember saying pretty clearly that once Nash came back teams would struggle to score 100 on us. And in regulation that has pretty much been the case. That Denver game showed how poor things can get if guys don't play with urgency and effort and Dwight was struggling at the end of a back to back and his stamina was clearly sapped. They need to bring the kind of effort they brought in the other 6 games is important.

And TONIGHT we can't afford to come out flat after days off in between. After 3 days off Dwight seems to take time to get revved up so if that's the case tonight we have to pretty much sustain.

Right now because of how our offense is running, and Nash running the show, whether we win games or not is going to come down to our defensive and help effort, which is Howard's side of the ball he's helping the team with. So that's our next hurdle I feel.

Our defense has improved a lot during that 7 game stretch, I want to see it every night. If we go 10-1 I'll feel much better about it. But I'm not gonna deny that things have changed for the better on that end since this run and since Nash has returned.

I feel a lot better about the team now that we're no longer giving up 111 points a game and are instead giving up between 98 and 102 which I'm fine with as we're scoring on average 107 during that stretch and 106 throughout the entire month of December.

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#304 Japago

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 06:32 PM

Actually the main reason is because of us limiting turnovers and forcing teams to have to score on us in the half court.

That basically trims down what we have to worry about defensively which is why it comes down to the help defensive effort because that's how we get scored on. Low scoring teams scored a lot on us still during those bad stretches because we wee turning over the ball every other possession. I remember saying pretty clearly that once Nash came back teams would struggle to score 100 on us. And in regulation that has pretty much been the case. That Denver game showed how poor things can get if guys don't play with urgency and effort and Dwight was struggling at the end of a back to back and his stamina was clearly sapped. They need to bring the kind of effort they brought in the other 6 games is important.

And TONIGHT we can't afford to come out flat after days off in between. After 3 days off Dwight seems to take time to get revved up so if that's the case tonight we have to pretty much sustain.

Right now because of how our offense is running, and Nash running the show, whether we win games or not is going to come down to our defensive and help effort, which is Howard's side of the ball he's helping the team with. So that's our next hurdle I feel.

Our defense has improved a lot during that 7 game stretch, I want to see it every night. If we go 10-1 I'll feel much better about it. But I'm not gonna deny that things have changed for the better on that end since this run and since Nash has returned.

I feel a lot better about the team now that we're no longer giving up 111 points a game and are instead giving up between 98 and 102 which I'm fine with as we're scoring on average 107 during that stretch and 106 throughout the entire month of December.


I want to see the Lakers not give up 100 to teams that average 100+. That's good defense.

Cutting down on turnovers as well as actual improved team defense has made the Lakers better than they were before. The New York and Portland games were legit defensive performances.

In most games though, the Lakers just haven't played good defense. They were horrid, now they're mediocre. I still see mediocre players lighting up the Lakers and scoring above their season average even some those wins.

I think the Lakers need better defensive players if they're going to become a top 10 defensive team.

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#305 Majesty

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 06:34 PM

I want to see the Lakers not give up 100 to teams that average 100+. That's good defense.

Cutting down on turnovers as well as actual improved team defense has made the Lakers better than they were before. The New York and Portland games were legit defensive performances.

In most games though, the Lakers just haven't played good defense. They were horrid, now they're mediocre. I still see mediocre players lighting up the Lakers and scoring above their season average even some those wins.

I think the Lakers need better defensive players if they're going to become a top 10 defensive team.


thing is the Lakers have never been an amazing defensive team, even when winning championships teams were scoring over 100 against us, actually between 101 and 102 points per game.

So in that stretch where we were holding teams to 98 points on average that's one of the best defensive stretches we've had believe it or not.

If you're asking us to go this season holding teams to 98-99 ppg, realize that we've never done that, not even when we were in championship form.

I'd love to see it.

But I'd be content with holding teams at 100-101 ppg I'd be fine with it as long as we average 105-107 ppg. Though with Steve Nash as our point guard running the show we'll probably get closer to holding teams under 100 on average than we've gotten in a long time.

My only real worry tonight is Morris may get extended time as a point guard because Duhon may not play.

Edited by Majesty, January 01, 2013 - 06:36 PM.

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#306 Japago

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 06:44 PM

thing is the Lakers have never been an amazing defensive team, even when winning championships teams were scoring over 100 against us, actually between 101 and 102 points per game.

So in that stretch where we were holding teams to 98 points on average that's one of the best defensive stretches we've had believe it or not.

If you're asking us to go this season holding teams to 98-99 ppg, realize that we've never done that, not even when we were in championship form.

I'd love to see it.

But I'd be content with holding teams at 100-101 ppg I'd be fine with it as long as we average 105-107 ppg. Though with Steve Nash as our point guard running the show we'll probably get closer to holding teams under 100 on average than we've gotten in a long time.

My only real worry tonight is Morris may get extended time as a point guard because Duhon may not play.


Actually, the Lakers were a great defensive team in both championship years. They were 5th in 08-09 and tied for 5th in 09-10. The Lakers were 3rd in offensive efficiency in 08-09 and 11th in 09-10.

Maybe the talent the Lakers have offensively enables them to win without being as good of a defensive team, but I still think they need to get a lot better. I would like them to get a legit stopper.

Metta just isn't that guy on defense anymore. People say he makes players work, but he's been allowing above average scoring on above average efficiency. At the end of the day, you have to get results. And, he isn't.

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#307 Majesty

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 06:52 PM

Actually, the Lakers were a great defensive team in both championship years. They were 5th in 08-09 and tied for 5th in 09-10. The Lakers were 3rd in offensive efficiency in 08-09 and 11th in 09-10.

Maybe the talent the Lakers have offensively enables them to win without being as good of a defensive team, but I still think they need to get a lot better. I would like them to get a legit stopper.

Metta just isn't that guy on defense anymore. People say he makes players work, but he's been allowing above average scoring on above average efficiency. At the end of the day, you have to get results. And, he isn't.


Lookie

08-09
Offensive efficiency 109.8
Defensive efficiency 101.9

09-10
Offensive efficiency 105.9
Defensive efficiency 101.1

10-11
Offensive efficiency 107.9
Defensive efficiency 101.3

11-12
Offensive efficiency 103.3
Defensive efficiency 101.7

and This year

12-13
Offensive efficiency 106.7
Defensive efficiency 102.7

And that is with the majority of games without our lineup and leading the league in turnovers and points off turnovers(against us) for a time because of it.
Yet we seem on pace to average defensively what we've averaged for the last 4 years(2 of them championship years)

So now do you understand what I mean?

The ONLY time we've ever held a team beneath 100 points lately was the 07-08 season when scoring around the league was down all over(no team scored 100 on average that year)

look

07-08
Offensive efficiency 96.5
Defensive efficiency 89.8 (9th in the league in defense)

Low scoring all around the league was the only reason why we held teams that low.

Aside from that we've pretty much dangled between 101 and 102 points allowed for the past 5 years.

Edited by Majesty, January 01, 2013 - 06:56 PM.

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#308 Japago

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 07:45 PM

Lookie

08-09
Offensive efficiency 109.8
Defensive efficiency 101.9

09-10
Offensive efficiency 105.9
Defensive efficiency 101.1

10-11
Offensive efficiency 107.9
Defensive efficiency 101.3

11-12
Offensive efficiency 103.3
Defensive efficiency 101.7

and This year

12-13
Offensive efficiency 106.7
Defensive efficiency 102.7

And that is with the majority of games without our lineup and leading the league in turnovers and points off turnovers(against us) for a time because of it.
Yet we seem on pace to average defensively what we've averaged for the last 4 years(2 of them championship years)

So now do you understand what I mean?

The ONLY time we've ever held a team beneath 100 points lately was the 07-08 season when scoring around the league was down all over(no team scored 100 on average that year)

look

07-08
Offensive efficiency 96.5
Defensive efficiency 89.8 (9th in the league in defense)

Low scoring all around the league was the only reason why we held teams that low.

Aside from that we've pretty much dangled between 101 and 102 points allowed for the past 5 years.


Efficiency rating isn't PPG. If we're going that route, the Lakers look even worse. They currently allow 100.2 PPG, which is 25th (!) in the league. They allowed only 97 a game(T-9th) in 09-10 and 99.3 (T-13) in 08-09.

I like going by ranking more because you need to compare them to the rest of the league. There's always going to be different trends in the league, which can make raw stats compared in different years misleading. Either way, they still need to improve on defense.

Edited by Japago, January 01, 2013 - 07:57 PM.

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#309 alec613

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 10:01 PM

[expletive], Pau! Ship his ass out of here

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#310 ColStac

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 10:05 PM

fjadklsfadsjmval;fjam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Needed a forum to get that out. Thanks for this.

Edited by ColStac, January 01, 2013 - 10:06 PM.

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#311 Alpha Four

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Posted January 01, 2013 - 10:12 PM

Wish we'd get some kind of defense down.

MDADefense_zpsb51f57fb.jpg


#312 Nak

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 07:02 AM

Howard is the most hyped and overrated player I've seen in a Laker uniform.

Arguably the greatest franchise ever


#313 Red September

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 11:45 AM

He's coming from a back injury... Have faith

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#314 Alpha Four

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 01:24 PM

It's only a matter of time before people demand Howard to be traded for a PG or SF lol

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#315 hotpocket

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 04:13 PM

Howard is the most hyped and overrated player I've seen in a Laker uniform.

He is not fully healthy.

Unfair statement.

#316 Japago

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Posted January 02, 2013 - 09:06 PM

At times during games, the Lakers look alright on defense.

Most of the time, they just can't do it consistently throughout a 48 minute stretch. I'm not talking about having stretches where they become mediocre. They can be really awful during some stretches, like when they allowed 20 points during the first half of the first quarter against Philadelphia.

When you lose match-ups across the board defensively, It's just difficult to play good defense consistently. It really hurts the Lakers that they are really nonathletic. I look at the Clippers. They don't have anybody really good on defense playing right now, yet they are one of the best defensive teams in the league.

In any sport, you just have to be athletic.

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#317 Instigator

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 10:32 PM

We should of added some good defenders last off season

#318 Japago

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 10:46 PM

The Lakers have had the same defensive problems they've had all season, and nothing has been done about it.

When else is there left to say at this point?

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#319 David

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Posted January 04, 2013 - 10:52 PM

Same [expletive] every game

Turnovers
Bench Sucks
Pau
Missed Free Throws



Then, in the forth quarter, Kobe and Dwight take over, get it within a couple a points, and then lose. J

KOBE. #VINO. BRYANT.


#320 Jay Cee

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Posted January 06, 2013 - 08:51 PM

I don't think the Lakers will make the playoffs. Tremendous failure of a year.




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