Jump to content




Photo

Sam Mitchell said it best


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#41 TKainZero

TKainZero

    Renaissance Man

  • 13,248 posts
  • Joined: Jul 21, 2010
  • Fan Since:1986
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted October 20, 2012 - 06:20 PM

I think Sam Mitchell is sad he was not invited to be on the worst coaching staff in NBA history....


Mike Brown...
Bernie Bickerstaff...
Eddie Jordan...


These are not guys you want leading your team...
These are guys you do not want to be near your NBA team..
These are guys you do not want coaching your daughters YMCA team...


One preseason game, I saw all three of them sitting next to each other...
It was like the Mount Rushmore of HORRIBLE NBA coachs....

EXCET, they are the active laker coaches...



2 years ago, if i had to make a list of the top 5 guys I would HATE to see coaching the lakers, 100% gaurentee that these three guys would be on that list, and sam mitchell too!



Seriously....

#42 SweatShop

SweatShop

    Throwin Rootbeers In Your Fridge

  • 603 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2012
  • Location:818
  • Fan Since:Pre_History
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted October 20, 2012 - 06:57 PM

Wait a minute. If what I'm saying doesn't validate my argument, how does anything you've said validate yours? All you're telling me is that Phil Jackson was a defensive-minded player, and therefore, he coaches a good defense. How well did Magic Johnson coach an offense?

And I didn't present my argument with just one season. I gave you reasons why Phil's teams were not great defensive teams, but of course, you're going to throw around the word "great" in this conversation. Great defensive teams are the 2004 Pistons, the Spurs dynasty, the 2008 and 2010 Celtics, the 1999 Knicks...teams that rank among the top 10 of all-time, by the numbers.

Kobe, Shaq, Harper, Fox and Green were all on that 2000 Lakers squad. What happened the following season, when they jumped from 1st to 21st? Harper played half a season, Green was gone, and Horace Grant and JR Rider were on our team. Fisher (who actually didn't play that bad on the defensive end, especially guarding the bigger post-up guards) played just 20 games the following season.

Do you think Flip Saunders is a solid defensive coach? He's horrible. He doesn't even care about his teams' defensive play. However, his 2006 Pistons (the team he stole from Larry Brown) maintained their 5th-ranked defense from the 2005 season. Didn't make Saunders a great defensive coach. It didn't make him a good defensive coach. He's not even average...but he can tell everyone he had the 5th-best defense in 2006.

He also had the 7th-best in 2007, and 4th best in 2008. His teams (that he coached) were actually better, defensively, than all of the Lakers teams that Phil coached. Would you say that Flip is a good defensive coach? Better than Phil? Right there with him?

Flip is horrendous on the defensive end. Phil Jackson is average. Both should not be considered when talking about the great, or even the good, defensive coaches in NBA history. That's all it boils down to.

EDIT: The 2012 Thunder team was a mistake, but the 2010 Thunder also burned us in the P&R. Brown didn't have much to do with it, and neither did Phil (PJ didn't coach our defense). Brown decided to adopt the idea that we should funnel our players to the baseline, and he ran with Bynum stepping out and defending all P&R's involving him (since they usually always did, that was the strategy against us), but Bynum refused it. That's understandable, because Drew was lazy. But Gasol, in 2008, 2009 and 2010...well, there was no excuse for it, and yet, Phil decided he should stay back.



no no, you are trying to put words in my mouth. i merely took exception to you saying that phil jackson had no idea how to teach his teams defense, i never said he was a defensive minded player therefore he coaches good defense. where did i say he was a defensive mastermind? at what point did he ever need to be? im really not arguing whether or not he was a great defensive coach, so there is nothing to defend on my part, im just questioning the absurdity of someone on a forum saying that he has no idea how to teach his teams defense. anyone that makes a statement like that should be able to prove it, you have not and i dont see it possible in this case.

i just find it a bit ridiculous and unbelievable for anyone on a forum to make that statement about a man that has nba experience going back 40 plus years, and well ,yes, especially a man that was a very smart defensive player. You can site all the stats all you want but that does nothing to validate that statement you made.

god, lets sit here and argue over the relative meaning word great lol. those 99 knicks were so great defensively, where did that get them? a routing by the spurs. Again, that is a whole different argument entirely, i am merely referring to you saying that phil jackson has no idea how to teach his teams defense. whether the lakers were the best defensive team or any other team is irrelevant and does nothing to back your statement.

we can go on forever, but im over the evolving argument and have to head out for the night anyways. have a nice weekend

Edited by SweatShop, October 20, 2012 - 07:04 PM.

Abdul-Jabbar told the San Francisco Chronicle last month he met Howard only once and that Howard expressed an interest in learning from the former Lakers captain but he never again reached out to Abdul-Jabbar.

‘He’s charming, he’s charismatic, very nice young man,’ Abdul-Jabbar said. ‘Maturity-wise, he doesn’t get it.’

#43 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,866 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted October 20, 2012 - 11:34 PM

In other words, Phil is a coach, he's got 40 years under his belt, and he knows how to teach defense because of that AND because you said so. That's all you're telling me, then.

Okay.

For future references, that 1999 Knicks team was beaten by a Spurs team that was also ranked in the top 10 of all-time, defensively. Both of those teams (Spurs and Knicks) were better, defensively, than ANY of those Bulls teams throughout the dynasty. I'm not sure why you had to bring up the Spurs tearing into the Knicks, given that information, and the fact that three of those five games (4-1 series) were won by a combined margin of just 16 points.

I've produced what I needed to, laid it on the table. If needed, I'd go ahead and rank the teams based on defensive rating, allowed FG%, and deploy individual player ratings, to show you just how important all of that is in determining Phil Jackson's role on that end of the court...but if you're going to disregard statistics (which is the only thing you and I can go by at this point), I guess there is no debate.

My point stands. You give his years as a coach, and his defensive presence as a player, to back up your argument. I give you everything else. If you produced what you needed to, by your logic, Mike D'Antoni knows how to teach his teams good defense, as he has been coaching for years (since 1990) AND was a very good defensive player. We know he's a bad defensive coach, just like Phil.

#44 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,079 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted October 21, 2012 - 05:43 AM

I don't think PJ was a bad defensive coach at all

Pau Gasol is GONE


#45 Disturbed

Disturbed

    Rookie

  • 321 posts
  • Joined: Jul 01, 2011
  • Fan Since:1968
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted October 21, 2012 - 09:14 AM

I don't think PJ was a bad defensive coach at all


The Bull and the Laker championships teams under PJ play played great defense.
NEARLY ALL MEN CAN STAND ADVERISTY, BUT IF YOU WANT TO TEST A MAN'S CHARACTER, GIVE HIM POWER.
Abraham Lincoln

#46 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,683 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted October 21, 2012 - 11:07 AM

The Bull and the Laker championships teams under PJ play played great defense.


It wasn't because of anything Phil taught them. Offensively yes, defensively no.

Edited by Majesty, October 21, 2012 - 11:08 AM.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#47 Windu

Windu

    Shatterpoint

  • 43,079 posts
  • Joined: Apr 24, 2009
  • Name:Will
  • Fan Since:1999
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted October 21, 2012 - 11:22 AM

Defense may not have been his specialty but I don't think he was poor on that end.

Pau Gasol is GONE


#48 SweatShop

SweatShop

    Throwin Rootbeers In Your Fridge

  • 603 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2012
  • Location:818
  • Fan Since:Pre_History
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted October 21, 2012 - 12:06 PM

In other words, Phil is a coach, he's got 40 years under his belt, and he knows how to teach defense because of that AND because you said so. That's all you're telling me, then.

Okay.

For future references, that 1999 Knicks team was beaten by a Spurs team that was also ranked in the top 10 of all-time, defensively. Both of those teams (Spurs and Knicks) were better, defensively, than ANY of those Bulls teams throughout the dynasty. I'm not sure why you had to bring up the Spurs tearing into the Knicks, given that information, and the fact that three of those five games (4-1 series) were won by a combined margin of just 16 points.

I've produced what I needed to, laid it on the table. If needed, I'd go ahead and rank the teams based on defensive rating, allowed FG%, and deploy individual player ratings, to show you just how important all of that is in determining Phil Jackson's role on that end of the court...but if you're going to disregard statistics (which is the only thing you and I can go by at this point), I guess there is no debate.

My point stands. You give his years as a coach, and his defensive presence as a player, to back up your argument. I give you everything else. If you produced what you needed to, by your logic, Mike D'Antoni knows how to teach his teams good defense, as he has been coaching for years (since 1990) AND was a very good defensive player. We know he's a bad defensive coach, just like Phil.


damn, you still dont get it. you posed a baseless statement as fact based on assumptions and opinions, there is no way it can be proven so how the [expletive] am i going to disprove it? when someone makes a lame statement like that, the burden is on them to prove it.

however logic SHOULD dictate that the man with 11 rings as a coach might know a little more than you think he does. And yes i have already said his teams were often dominant on the defensive end when they needed big stops and nyone that has watched phil since the onset should know that. You can consider that all by accident and argue your opinion of the word dominant but it doesnt matter and i dont care. when its down to two teams in the finals you only need to dominate that team not be more dominant than every team in history.

For future references, that 1999 Knicks team was beaten by a Spurs team that was also ranked in the top 10 of all-time, defensively.


see thats the sort of arrogance that i expect from someone behind a computer who makes a statement like phil jackson has no idea how to teach his teams defense. i rest my case.

no [expletive] the spurs were leading the league in defense that year but i had no intention of getting into that and changing the subject. like i said you want to evolve the argument into something else while missing the point.
For future reference, those knicks were also only the 4th rated defense that year, coming out of the EAST, they were behind orlando and atlanta as well. That was also what, a 50 game season. still all that has no bearing on your statement.

whether or not they were historically dominant defensively makes no difference and doesnt do a damn thing to defend a baseless statement. siting all the statistics you want from any website you want is not ever going to prove your statement that "phil has no idea how to teach his teams defense".

let it rest
Abdul-Jabbar told the San Francisco Chronicle last month he met Howard only once and that Howard expressed an interest in learning from the former Lakers captain but he never again reached out to Abdul-Jabbar.

‘He’s charming, he’s charismatic, very nice young man,’ Abdul-Jabbar said. ‘Maturity-wise, he doesn’t get it.’

#49 SweatShop

SweatShop

    Throwin Rootbeers In Your Fridge

  • 603 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2012
  • Location:818
  • Fan Since:Pre_History
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted October 21, 2012 - 12:14 PM

It wasn't because of anything Phil taught them. Offensively yes, defensively no.


just because he had great defensive players and was known for the triangle, doesnt meant he never taught them anything on the defensive end. if you think about it, its all but impossible for a very smart former defensive minded player to not have taught any of his players anything on the defensive end. just look at the times when he actually flew out of his chair because of defensive plays, think he had nothing to tell his players then?

Edited by SweatShop, October 21, 2012 - 12:15 PM.

Abdul-Jabbar told the San Francisco Chronicle last month he met Howard only once and that Howard expressed an interest in learning from the former Lakers captain but he never again reached out to Abdul-Jabbar.

‘He’s charming, he’s charismatic, very nice young man,’ Abdul-Jabbar said. ‘Maturity-wise, he doesn’t get it.’

#50 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,866 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted October 21, 2012 - 12:51 PM

damn, you still dont get it. you posed a baseless statement as fact based on assumptions and opinions, there is no way it can be proven so how the [expletive] am i going to disprove it? when someone makes a lame statement like that, the burden is on them to prove it.

however logic SHOULD dictate that the man with 11 rings as a coach might know a little more than you think he does. And yes i have already said his teams were often dominant on the defensive end when they needed big stops and nyone that has watched phil since the onset should know that. You can consider that all by accident and argue your opinion of the word dominant but it doesnt matter and i dont care. when its down to two teams in the finals you only need to dominate that team not be more dominant than every team in history.

see thats the sort of arrogance that i expect from someone behind a computer who makes a statement like phil jackson has no idea how to teach his teams defense. i rest my case.

no [expletive] the spurs were leading the league in defense that year but i had no intention of getting into that and changing the subject. like i said you want to evolve the argument into something else while missing the point.
For future reference, those knicks were also only the 4th rated defense that year, coming out of the EAST, they were behind orlando and atlanta as well. That was also what, a 50 game season. still all that has no bearing on your statement.

whether or not they were historically dominant defensively makes no difference and doesnt do a damn thing to defend a baseless statement. siting all the statistics you want from any website you want is not ever going to prove your statement that "phil has no idea how to teach his teams defense".

let it rest

First off, watch your [expletive]ing tone. From your first post arguing your "stance" on this topic, you acted as if you were obligated to step in here and teach someone something...and you're far from that, trust me.

Baseless statement? In that case, you can't debate any position for ANY coach in this league, from Phil Jackson to Mike Brown, Gregg Popovich to Rick Carlisle, so what's the point of talking about coaches to begin with? Should I go ahead and delete all of these comments about ALL coaches?

If you can't handle it, don't jump in. Those Knicks were ranked 4th that year solely in defensive rating, but that team was also second in NBA HISTORY in allowed FG% (the 1999 Spurs first in NBA history), among other defensive numbers that suggest that they were outstanding.

Saying, "Uh, no," without a reason is something a poster would do with no answers. Would you like for me to search for your negative comments about Mike Brown?

How about telling us why you think this:

sure, phil was frustrating at times and is no pop or l brown defensively

What makes you think that? If we aren't using team defensive numbers, go ahead and prove to me that Larry Brown and Gregg Popovich are better defensive coaches.

You can't...because there's evidence of it...evidence that you would rather ignore if it doesn't support your side of a debate that is, quite frankly, one-sided, in my favor.

It's funny how I can go back on your statements and realize how bad you had it. Kind of like when you made this comment in your first statement:

phil was a smart defensive minded player and has nba experience that goes back 40 or more years.

Then you say this:

i never said he was a defensive minded player therefore he coaches good defense

No reason to bring up his playing abilities in the past, then, correct? Why did you point to that?

So, in that case, how well did Gregg Popovich play defense when he was an NBA player? Ah, he didn't play in the NBA, so that's not significant.

Mike D'Antoni has been coaching since 1990, Jackson since 1989. Duration of coaching qualifies you as being able to teach your team defense? Nope, guess not.

In your mind, I may not have a case...but at least I have something to base my argument off of (and it's credible, whether you want to believe it or not). You are basically just shaking your head and saying no...and that earns no respect.

Go ahead and get your last word in. I'll let you have that, at least. It was pretty obvious we were done talking right after your first reply, but now it's a lock.

#51 bfc1125roy

bfc1125roy

    Superstar

  • 4,035 posts
  • Joined: Dec 10, 2011
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 21, 2012 - 01:37 PM

I don't blame Phil as much for his teams' lack of stellar defense just because we had some pretty [expletive]ty to average defenders on those championship squads. And no matter how good your scheme is you need good defensive players to really be a good defensive team. Beyond Kobe and Ron (in 2010), there wasn't much talent on that end of the floor. If you look to teams like the 2008 Celtics or 2004 Pistons, they had good defensive anchors and perimeter defenders, and then they could add in funneling strategies and start blocking off passing lanes to really cement themselves as some of the best defensive teams of all time. I remember in 2009 when we tried to have Kurt Rambis be our defensive coordinator, LA's defense looked good for the first few weeks but went back to average over the course of the season. Why? Because even though they stopped playing pure man and added in some new elements, the scheme couldn't mask the very prevalent defensive weaknesses of the individual players.

That being said, Phil was often stubborn and didn't make defensive adjustments. Took him a while just to put Kobe on Rondo in the first finals against the Celtics, for example. He is an average defensive coach. But his ability to mesh talent together and manage egos is to me, at least, what makes him the GOAT of coaches.

Edited by bfc1125roy, October 21, 2012 - 01:38 PM.


#52 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Legend

  • 14,866 posts
  • Joined: Jun 29, 2008
  • Location:Kansas
  • Name:Brandon
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe

Posted October 21, 2012 - 02:20 PM

I don't blame Phil as much for his teams' lack of stellar defense just because we had some pretty [expletive]ty to average defenders on those championship squads. And no matter how good your scheme is you need good defensive players to really be a good defensive team. Beyond Kobe and Ron (in 2010), there wasn't much talent on that end of the floor. If you look to teams like the 2008 Celtics or 2004 Pistons, they had good defensive anchors and perimeter defenders, and then they could add in funneling strategies and start blocking off passing lanes to really cement themselves as some of the best defensive teams of all time. I remember in 2009 when we tried to have Kurt Rambis be our defensive coordinator, LA's defense looked good for the first few weeks but went back to average over the course of the season. Why? Because even though they stopped playing pure man and added in some new elements, the scheme couldn't mask the very prevalent defensive weaknesses of the individual players.

That being said, Phil was often stubborn and didn't make defensive adjustments. Took him a while just to put Kobe on Rondo in the first finals against the Celtics, for example. He is an average defensive coach. But his ability to mesh talent together and manage egos is to me, at least, what makes him the GOAT of coaches.

To me, you have elite defensive coaches (and I won't name all of them, just a few each)...

Larry Brown
Gregg Popovich
Red Auerbach

Then you have good defensive coaches...

Tom Thibodeau (he's borderline elite, just needs another couple of seasons under his belt)
Erik Spoelstra
Mike Brown
Doc Rivers
Rick Carlisle

You have average defensive coaches...

Frank Vogel
Avery Johnson
Byron Scott
Scott Brooks

Then you have the below-average group, where Phil Jackson fits...but I'll give Phil the nod over...

Flip Saunders
Eddie Jordan
John Kuester
Mike D'Antoni
Vinny Del Negro
others...

--------------

With that said, again, Phil ranks in the elite when it comes to offensive coaching, and nobody else has ever managed egos better. I would take him #1 in both categories, actually...and that, combined with 11 rings, gives him the green light as the GOAT among all coaches in league history.

#53 Bishop*

Bishop*

    Rookie

  • 56 posts
  • Joined: Oct 11, 2012
  • Name:Kofi Oppong
  • Fan Since:1992
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 22, 2012 - 05:19 AM

I hope after yesterday's game and Nash's interview people are beginning to see the light. All is not well in LA LA Land!!

#54 LakeShow805

LakeShow805

    Superstar

  • 7,458 posts
  • Joined: Jun 13, 2011
  • Location:Cali
  • Name:Tyler
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:The mamba

Posted October 22, 2012 - 08:19 AM

I hope after yesterday's game and Nash's interview people are beginning to see the light. All is not well in LA LA Land!!

lol its the first game all together troll

#55 gque24

gque24

    Sixth Man

  • 4,143 posts
  • Joined: Sep 03, 2009
  • Location:Sky High
  • Fan Since:1985
  • Fav. Laker:KOBE

Posted October 22, 2012 - 08:43 AM

I hope after yesterday's game and Nash's interview people are beginning to see the light. All is not well in LA LA Land!!



All is fine! Coach Brown was cause for loss again yesterday with his weird substitution patterns. He still doesnt have a reliable common rotation. HE needs to have that determined by next pre-season gm & follow that rotation for next 3 gms to get guys used to their role. Plenty of bech guys still dont have a clue when they are gonna play.
Never Wrong Always Right Like Freeway Exits!!

#56 GCMD

GCMD

    All-Star

  • 6,776 posts
  • Joined: Jul 25, 2008
  • Fav. Laker:Magic Johnson

Posted October 22, 2012 - 08:47 AM

Nash has enough street cred to determine when and where he'll stick to the play book. Right now, I think he's indulging them because the Princeton is something good to fall back on.


Most of the time, Nash will do his thing and the rest of the team will not have a problem with that.



Kobe recruited Nash for a reason...he's not going to let Nash get shafted by the Princeton, Yale, Harvard or Oxford. It will be ok...

Edited by GCMD, October 22, 2012 - 08:48 AM.


#57 gque24

gque24

    Sixth Man

  • 4,143 posts
  • Joined: Sep 03, 2009
  • Location:Sky High
  • Fan Since:1985
  • Fav. Laker:KOBE

Posted October 22, 2012 - 11:58 AM

Nash has enough street cred to determine when and where he'll stick to the play book. Right now, I think he's indulging them because the Princeton is something good to fall back on.


Most of the time, Nash will do his thing and the rest of the team will not have a problem with that.



Kobe recruited Nash for a reason...he's not going to let Nash get shafted by the Princeton, Yale, Harvard or Oxford. It will be ok...



Street cred = WTF does that have to do with Nash playing PG for Lakers?? :laughing: :nah:
Never Wrong Always Right Like Freeway Exits!!

#58 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,683 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted October 22, 2012 - 12:13 PM

Nash has enough street cred to determine when and where he'll stick to the play book. Right now, I think he's indulging them because the Princeton is something good to fall back on.


Most of the time, Nash will do his thing and the rest of the team will not have a problem with that.



Kobe recruited Nash for a reason...he's not going to let Nash get shafted by the Princeton, Yale, Harvard or Oxford. It will be ok...



One thing people really aren't talking about is the Lakers are the first team to really CREATE for Nash. I mean Nash is probably seeing more opportunities to attack than he has in his entire career and plays like he isn't used to it. Remember in Phoenix he made it work for everyone else and people weren't really setting him up or creating shots for him. The Lakers are doing it for Nash and he's a little hesitant. Because in Phoenix he was used to picking his spots because he'd create those spots himself, but those spots were rarely if ever made for him. But the Lakers are getting him so many opportunities he is still getting used to taking advantage of them all because he's looking for someone to pass to or set up a shot for when he's his shot to take.

He'll get used to it :)

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 


#59 SweatShop

SweatShop

    Throwin Rootbeers In Your Fridge

  • 603 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2012
  • Location:818
  • Fan Since:Pre_History
  • Fav. Laker:Magic

Posted October 22, 2012 - 03:43 PM

First off, watch your [expletive]ing tone. From your first post arguing your "stance" on this topic, you acted as if you were obligated to step in here and teach someone something...and you're far from that, trust me.

Baseless statement? In that case, you can't debate any position for ANY coach in this league, from Phil Jackson to Mike Brown, Gregg Popovich to Rick Carlisle, so what's the point of talking about coaches to begin with? Should I go ahead and delete all of these comments about ALL coaches?

If you can't handle it, don't jump in. Those Knicks were ranked 4th that year solely in defensive rating, but that team was also second in NBA HISTORY in allowed FG% (the 1999 Spurs first in NBA history), among other defensive numbers that suggest that they were outstanding.

Saying, "Uh, no," without a reason is something a poster would do with no answers. Would you like for me to search for your negative comments about Mike Brown?

How about telling us why you think this:


What makes you think that? If we aren't using team defensive numbers, go ahead and prove to me that Larry Brown and Gregg Popovich are better defensive coaches.

You can't...because there's evidence of it...evidence that you would rather ignore if it doesn't support your side of a debate that is, quite frankly, one-sided, in my favor.

It's funny how I can go back on your statements and realize how bad you had it. Kind of like when you made this comment in your first statement:


Then you say this:

No reason to bring up his playing abilities in the past, then, correct? Why did you point to that?

So, in that case, how well did Gregg Popovich play defense when he was an NBA player? Ah, he didn't play in the NBA, so that's not significant.

Mike D'Antoni has been coaching since 1990, Jackson since 1989. Duration of coaching qualifies you as being able to teach your team defense? Nope, guess not.

In your mind, I may not have a case...but at least I have something to base my argument off of (and it's credible, whether you want to believe it or not). You are basically just shaking your head and saying no...and that earns no respect.

Go ahead and get your last word in. I'll let you have that, at least. It was pretty obvious we were done talking right after your first reply, but now it's a lock.



i regret not being more tactful from the onset and for that i apologize but im not going to worry about my tone when someone continues to make condescending comments to me from behind a computer screen . I never felt obligated to step anywhere and teach anyone anything, if you have that arrogant outlook , i feel sorry for you. To tell you the truth, i was let down that a poster i respected, would make such a baseless and ignorant statement. If you fall off your own pedetsal thats not my fault. And youre still on your high horse, dont act like you know anything about me or what i know.

you make a borderline arrogant comment saying phil jackson has no idea how to teach his teams defense, like you know better than he does. i liken that to a parrot telling a duck he doesnt know how to quack right., thats how that statement came off to me. with that said , im sure i could have come off in a better light as well.

you can lay all the stats you want down, after all stats are fact. however, that in no way means that it does anything to help support YOUR statement.

i can site plenty of stats as well that will just fail to point to any definitive answer much like you have done, but i dont care to evolve one argument into another and go around in the inevitable circle that you cant see as pointless. People like you seem to think everything can be proven with a stat but thats rarely the case, especially with a statement like that.

anyone who has been following phil for his career or even just his duration with the lakers or has known someone with firsthand knowledge from that time period should have seen him fly out of his seat and call timeouts on defensive misplays or know how he was as a coach in practices. What do you think he told his players when he called one of those timeouts on a defensive misplay? do you think there is just a slight chance that he taught them something or at the very least refreshed their memory on what they were doing wrong? Of course every solid defensive team he has had, he played absolutely no part in.

if i cant handle it dont jump in? no, if you cant backup such a bold statement, dont make it. you just want to sit here wasting time and twisting words around and like i said, i dont have the time nor patience for that sort of nonsense. with each post you get further from the point lol.

speaking of you twisting words around, as far as what i said about phils experience going back 40 years, that was meant to illustrate the almost innumerable probability that he might just know a bit more about the subject than you give him credit, and a whole lot more than you know. so dont try and connect the dots saying i said that makes him a good defensive coach.

as far as ignoring evidence that doesnt support my problem with your statement, i cant even fathom how anyone could really think that you have said a single thing that supports that pj has no idea how to teach his teams defense.

oh thanks , let me have the last word, i have been trying to end this argument for a while while you have been busy twisting words around.

clearly nothing anyone can say is going to make you believe anything other than "phil jackson has no idea how to teach his teams defense."

none of the years of mostly solid to great defensive stats of his teams can make you see through your own apparent arrogance, and besides, you should already know them anyways. And again, good or bad, me bringing up some team stat like limiting free throws and three point percentage (which any stat lover like you should know are generally the best percentage to point basis shots) doesnt necessarily reflect much on the coach. Just because i dont usually agree with siting stats(because there are usually too many variables) to prove a point doesnt mean i dont know them.

how about we both stop this argument and the disrespect that has come along with it? if not you might as well ban or ignore me.

Edited by SweatShop, October 22, 2012 - 03:48 PM.

Abdul-Jabbar told the San Francisco Chronicle last month he met Howard only once and that Howard expressed an interest in learning from the former Lakers captain but he never again reached out to Abdul-Jabbar.

‘He’s charming, he’s charismatic, very nice young man,’ Abdul-Jabbar said. ‘Maturity-wise, he doesn’t get it.’

#60 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 36,683 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted October 22, 2012 - 03:50 PM

you can lay all the stats you want down, after all stats are fact. however, that in no way means that it does anything to help support YOUR statement.



:blink:

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to Djokovic? - Robert Flores 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users