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Doc Rivers: Only Center That Worries Me Is Bynum


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#61 Real Deal

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 02:37 PM

By the way...I'm not even sure if anyone is catching this, but Doc Rivers would have a bigger problem with Drew simply because it's Bynum who had Kobe and Gasol as teammates, and Drew presents a bigger problem for Boston because they can't defend him the way they could Dwight. All they did with Howard was stick Garnett on him, then double and triple-team him as much as they could. You couldn't do that with Drew back in LA, unless you had a Tony Allen...and Boston lost Tony a while back.

Also, Garnett would have an easier time with Dwight, just as Shaq would have it easier against Drew. Garnett isn't a true center, and he has trouble defending back-to-the-basket big men who play like Bynum.

Only problem is...now, Boston won't be able to defend Howard the same way, not with three other all-star caliber players on the floor.

#62 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 02:40 PM

By the way...I'm not even sure if anyone is catching this, but Doc Rivers would have a bigger problem with Drew simply because it's Bynum who had Kobe and Gasol as teammates, and Drew presents a bigger problem for Boston because they can't defend him the way they could Dwight. All they did with Howard was stick Garnett on him, then double and triple-team him as much as they could. You couldn't do that with Drew back in LA, unless you had a Tony Allen...and Boston lost Tony a while back.

Also, Garnett would have an easier time with Dwight, just as Shaq would have it easier against Drew. Garnett isn't a true center, and he has trouble defending back-to-the-basket big men who play like Bynum.

Only problem is...now, Boston won't be able to defend Howard the same way, not with three other all-star caliber players on the floor.


Does that mean Dwight will look as efficient on the offense end with the Lakers as Drew did?

#63 bfc1125roy

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 02:41 PM

By the way...I'm not even sure if anyone is catching this, but Doc Rivers would have a bigger problem with Drew simply because it's Bynum who had Kobe and Gasol as teammates, and Drew presents a bigger problem for Boston because they can't defend him the way they could Dwight. All they did with Howard was stick Garnett on him, then double and triple-team him as much as they could. You couldn't do that with Drew back in LA, unless you had a Tony Allen...and Boston lost Tony a while back.

Also, Garnett would have an easier time with Dwight, just as Shaq would have it easier against Drew. Garnett isn't a true center, and he has trouble defending back-to-the-basket big men who play like Bynum.

Only problem is...now, Boston won't be able to defend Howard the same way, not with three other all-star caliber players on the floor.


Yeah that's what I was trying to get at in my previous post. He was probably worried about Bynum because he's on the Lakers, but the Magic sucked so Boston could focus their D on stopping Howard. Whereas with LA it was primarily about stopping Kobe, so it was tougher to focus on Bynum.

Either way, he has even more of a reason to be worried now about the Lakers.

Does that mean Dwight will look as efficient on the offense end with the Lakers as Drew did?


No, he'll look more efficient :P

#64 Real Deal

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 02:44 PM

Does that mean Dwight will look as efficient on the offense end with the Lakers as Drew did?

If we're P&R heavy, and Howard is getting all of those looks at the rim without the defense collapsing, I'm sure he'll be as efficient as he has always been...which is usually almost always more efficient than Drew.

#65 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 02:44 PM

Yeah that's what I was trying to get at in my previous post. He was probably worried about Bynum because he's on the Lakers, but the Magic sucked so Boston could focus their D on stopping Howard. Whereas with LA it was primarily about stopping Kobe, so it was tougher to focus on Bynum.

Either way, he has even more of a reason to be worried now about the Lakers.



No, he'll look more efficient :P


I can't wait! :rock:

No matter how many times I play with the new look Lakes in 2K12 it just wont be like a true teaser until the new offensive sets are in.

I dont' know if there are any Princeton sets for me to add to the Lakers playbook in 2K, I wanna preview of our new offense damnit.

#66 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 02:46 PM

If we're P&R heavy, and Howard is getting all of those looks at the rim without the defense collapsing, I'm sure he'll be as efficient as he has always been...which is usually almost always more efficient than Drew.


I hope we are P&R heavy, we didn't pair the best pick and roll point guard and center for nothing. :glasses:

#67 Majesty

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 03:52 PM

By the way...I'm not even sure if anyone is catching this, but Doc Rivers would have a bigger problem with Drew simply because it's Bynum who had Kobe and Gasol as teammates, and Drew presents a bigger problem for Boston because they can't defend him the way they could Dwight. All they did with Howard was stick Garnett on him, then double and triple-team him as much as they could. You couldn't do that with Drew back in LA, unless you had a Tony Allen...and Boston lost Tony a while back.

Also, Garnett would have an easier time with Dwight, just as Shaq would have it easier against Drew. Garnett isn't a true center, and he has trouble defending back-to-the-basket big men who play like Bynum.

Only problem is...now, Boston won't be able to defend Howard the same way, not with three other all-star caliber players on the floor.


If we're talking about what they are facing now, then basically, they will have to play Garnett on Howard and not risk anyone rotating, because leaving Nash, or Kobe, or even Gasol wide open is gonna give them problems. Even with our bench squad with Jamison and Meeks out there they can't afford to leave Jamison open in the mid nor can they afford to leave Meeks open at the three.

I honestly think Dwight is gonna face less triple and double teams this year than he ever has in his career and because of his experience passing out of double teams, he won't be taken advantage of by a team just collapsing on him. I think we'll rarely see a Dwight back to the basket moment where he holds the ball more than 3 seconds before deciding to go, strictly because of the offense we'll be running. We'll be running a faster half court set offense to get everyone open and I think because of this it will make teams less likely to double Howard as well and that's just in Howard's case, not even going into Nash, or Kobe, or Gasol or Artest. We pretty much have a lineup where if we run this offense correctly to each player's strengths, considering we have a counter to every kind of defense that can be thrown at us, then we are almost a virtually unguardable team. That's a scary thought.

I hope we are P&R heavy, we didn't pair the best pick and roll point guard and center for nothing. :glasses:



It's moments like this that make me miss Shannon. When I think of all the easy dunks he got on a P&R with Mbenga or Gasol just imagining what him and Nash and Howard could do if all 3 were on the court together.....7 of the Sportscenter top 10 plays would be of us.

Edited by Majesty, August 20, 2012 - 03:53 PM.

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#68 lakerfandude

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 09:37 PM

I stand corrected then, but I said maybe :P

If that's the case, then it's either because Doc was more worried about the Lakers as a team, or he's just dumb.



Or on the flip side, Bynum is actually better.

Edited by lakerfandude, August 20, 2012 - 09:38 PM.


#69 MyJohnsonIsMagic

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 10:05 PM

Or on the flip side, Bynum is actually better.


I've been reading your comments for a while, they all have the share the same flaw.

A lack of common sense in their perspective.

Andrew Bynum is not better than Dwight Howard no matter how you put it,
I understand we all have our opinions but we aren't discussing philosophy
here so it isn't a matter of opinion, its a fact.

If you are going to refute facts, you better have a very good explanation and
it doesn't start nor end with 'you have your opinion and I have mine'.

People call you names because quite frankly they don't know what else to do,
you wont listen to reason so I don't blame them (I blame you).

You are on my ignore list now, because I don't need to guess what your
reply will be like I have already seen how defensive you get.

I also don't go back and forth with people when I don't need to
especially if they aren't putting up a valid argument.

I hope one day you realize you are wrong, and not for anyone's
sake but yours.

I've never seen such a bad case of self induced dementia in a young adult,
its really sad I hope you get better.

#70 Hollywood

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 10:11 PM



Or on the flip side, Bynum is actually better.


:crazy:
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#71 pkflyers

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 10:22 PM

Or on the flip side, Bynum is actually better.

better at what? video games?

judging the entire package both player bring to the table, dwight has more to offer than drew


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#72 bfc1125roy

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Posted August 20, 2012 - 11:24 PM

Or on the flip side, Bynum is actually better.


If you read my post on the earlier page, I articulate why Howard is better:


Wow this seems to be turning into another Howard vs. Bynum debate. I'll throw in a few points, that most Bynum supporters have trouble refuting.

1) Physically. Howard is far superior. His body can hold up for 82 games, he's mobile and has stamina. Bynum in contrast doesn't have the stamina to be a primary option offensively and a legitimate defensive anchor, and he struggles because he has chronic knee problems, so he can't put more weight on his knees, which are already limiting him physically. Even if Bynum were to put in all the effort in the world, he's still behind Howard because of this reason.

2) Offensively. Bynum might have 2-3 more back to the basket moves, but he doesn't have the overall offensive game Howard has. Howard's ability to get out of the paint rather than camp there, and the fact that he doesn't hold the ball and spend 10 seconds dribbling in the post, makes it easier on perimeter players. Once Bynum got a semblance of the defensive attention Howard receives on a nightly basis, his percentages nosedived. Give Howard the single coverage Bynum gets, and he'll drop 40/20 while setting a freethrow record (look at the ORL-GSW game this year). Bynum in Philly might score 20-25 points, but he'll do it on under 50% shooting. People criticize me for reading too much into a 7 game sample, to which all I can say is watch next season and quote me on this as much as you want then :P But even if you don't want to buy that argument, look to the fact that Bynum has trouble facilitating out of the post, making it impossible to run an offense through him, and the fact that a Perkins front that pushed him 2-3 feet out of the block took him out of the OKC series (check his shooting percentages from games 2-5 if you don't believe me).

3) Defensively. Does not need explanation.


Edited by bfc1125roy, August 20, 2012 - 11:24 PM.


#73 last stand 2.0

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 01:58 AM

All the people saying "Doc said it because Bynum is in the east now" you ARE aware that when Doc said this he was under the impression that Bynum was still a Laker right?


Doc said this the night the trade was made official in the media. So no. This whole idea is false. Now if you want to try and sell me that doc escaped every bit of news about Dwight going to la you can if you want but you'd be wrong.
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#74 last stand 2.0

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 02:00 AM

Or on the flip side, Bynum is actually better.


Until you bring facts to the table this argument holds no water
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#75 Majesty

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 02:32 AM

Doc said this the night the trade was made official in the media. So no. This whole idea is false. Now if you want to try and sell me that doc escaped every bit of news about Dwight going to la you can if you want but you'd be wrong.



No, Doc said this when him and Doug Collins were having a discussion by themselves that Doug Collins was referring to(this was Doug telling the media about a discussion him and Doc were having the day before Philly got Bynum but Doug knew the deal was going down, Doc didn't know) and Doc brought up low post centers and said the only one that worries him is Bynum, and Doug nearly choked probably because of the coincidence and was thinking "Well...We're getting him tomorrow" but couldn't say anything.
They were actually discussing the thing about post centers the day before the trade went down so.... yeah. Doug knew they were getting Bynum, but Doc didn't know. They were both working the Olympics together and Doug was in the know just as Mike Brown was in the know a day before the trade happened too but they weren't allowed to disclose it to anyone. So Doug Collins didn't tell Doc Rivers that. Doc had no idea that Philly was getting Bynum at the time they were having that discussion in London. So yeah, you were wrong there. Don't act like such a wiseguy if you don't know the whole story ;)

Edited by Majesty, August 21, 2012 - 02:37 AM.

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#76 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 04:00 AM

No, Doc said this when him and Doug Collins were having a discussion by themselves that Doug Collins was referring to(this was Doug telling the media about a discussion him and Doc were having the day before Philly got Bynum but Doug knew the deal was going down, Doc didn't know) and Doc brought up low post centers and said the only one that worries him is Bynum, and Doug nearly choked probably because of the coincidence and was thinking "Well...We're getting him tomorrow" but couldn't say anything.
They were actually discussing the thing about post centers the day before the trade went down so.... yeah. Doug knew they were getting Bynum, but Doc didn't know. They were both working the Olympics together and Doug was in the know just as Mike Brown was in the know a day before the trade happened too but they weren't allowed to disclose it to anyone. So Doug Collins didn't tell Doc Rivers that. Doc had no idea that Philly was getting Bynum at the time they were having that discussion in London. So yeah, you were wrong there. Don't act like such a wiseguy if you don't know the whole story ;)

And yet you're making it sound as if you were Doug Collins himself. You don't know if Rivers wasn't aware of the deal going down, though many things point to that being the case. Yeah, they had the conversation a day before Philly got Bynum. If Doc had access to the internet or his phone (which I'm positive of), then he would have gotten word of this potential deal going down. It spread like wildfire across the web once Woj tweeted of it. Doc has FAR better connections than any of us scouring twitter for any potential deals happening around the league.

Doug and Mike were in the know a day before? That's great, but we all knew of this deal almost a full 24 hours before it became official. We got word of this potential 4-way deal early Thursday morning (about 10am EST) and the deal was official the very next morning. You don't think that in those 24 hours Doc Rivers would have gotten word as well? It was only the biggest news of the NBA offseason.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Doc Rivers gave Bynum the biggest compliment ever in all his years coaching against him during that conversation. I'm sure he's smart enough to realize that Andrew Bynum on that Philly squad that could be a thorn in his side for years to come. If they see them in the playoffs, they could easily play them 10 games a season counting playoffs and regular season.

#77 Majesty

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 04:40 AM

And yet you're making it sound as if you were Doug Collins himself. You don't know if Rivers wasn't aware of the deal going down, though many things point to that being the case. Yeah, they had the conversation a day before Philly got Bynum. If Doc had access to the internet or his phone (which I'm positive of), then he would have gotten word of this potential deal going down. It spread like wildfire across the web once Woj tweeted of it. Doc has FAR better connections than any of us scouring twitter for any potential deals happening around the league.

Doug and Mike were in the know a day before? That's great, but we all knew of this deal almost a full 24 hours before it became official. We got word of this potential 4-way deal early Thursday morning (about 10am EST) and the deal was official the very next morning. You don't think that in those 24 hours Doc Rivers would have gotten word as well? It was only the biggest news of the NBA offseason.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Doc Rivers gave Bynum the biggest compliment ever in all his years coaching against him during that conversation. I'm sure he's smart enough to realize that Andrew Bynum on that Philly squad that could be a thorn in his side for years to come. If they see them in the playoffs, they could easily play them 10 games a season counting playoffs and regular season.


Actually what I bolded was this. We only got news that a deal may happen which was pretty similar to the news that had already come out before and there was no real set on which deal was on the table. We didn't know what teams were getting what we just knew both sides were talking. We knew by the afternoon that the deal was complete and was just pending league review the next morning by about 5 or 6 PM. You know what time it was in London at about 5 PM? 1 or 2 AM!!
We basically knew they were talking in the morning and the deal was done by the afternoon. If Doug Collins knew about that a full 24 hours before the news even broke, yes it's very plausible that in London 24 hours earlier Doug Collins and him were talking and Doc had no idea about it while Doug knew the deal was gonna happen.

You gotta remember when the news basically broke that the deal was done, and it was just pending league approval(the next morning) that it was around 1 or 2 am in London. So I doubt Doc was up at those hours talking to Doug Collins about Nba Big men. They were talking about it prior to then.

So it wasn't an entire 24 hours of confirmed Dwight Howard news that Doc would have had to avoid. It was more like 4, and then it was pending league approval till the next day but we all knew the deal was done, and the fact that when the news broke over here it was a wonderful 2 AM in London :nah: and this was the day AFTER Collins and Doc had already talked. So yeah....

We got the news that talks were going on and then a few hours later it was confirmed that there WAS in fact a deal that was DONE and would just be pending league approval the following morning. When the news broke the deal was done it was a good 1 am in the morning. It wasn't 24 hours of "oh this deal could happen" it was more like 4 hours of it before it was "Done" and pending league approval the next morning. And by the time it was "Done, pending league approval" here, it was 1 or 2 AM in London. So I very much doubt that Doc was up at that time twittering, went to find Doug Collins and then compliment him about Bynum. They had the discussion a day before that happened when Doug knew the deal was going down, so it's pretty apparent at least to me that Doc would have had no idea that Philly was getting Bynum unless Doug told him.

Edited by Majesty, August 21, 2012 - 04:42 AM.

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#78 LakeShow805

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 09:13 AM

Actually what I bolded was this. We only got news that a deal may happen which was pretty similar to the news that had already come out before and there was no real set on which deal was on the table. We didn't know what teams were getting what we just knew both sides were talking. We knew by the afternoon that the deal was complete and was just pending league review the next morning by about 5 or 6 PM. You know what time it was in London at about 5 PM? 1 or 2 AM!!
We basically knew they were talking in the morning and the deal was done by the afternoon. If Doug Collins knew about that a full 24 hours before the news even broke, yes it's very plausible that in London 24 hours earlier Doug Collins and him were talking and Doc had no idea about it while Doug knew the deal was gonna happen.

You gotta remember when the news basically broke that the deal was done, and it was just pending league approval(the next morning) that it was around 1 or 2 am in London. So I doubt Doc was up at those hours talking to Doug Collins about Nba Big men. They were talking about it prior to then.

So it wasn't an entire 24 hours of confirmed Dwight Howard news that Doc would have had to avoid. It was more like 4, and then it was pending league approval till the next day but we all knew the deal was done, and the fact that when the news broke over here it was a wonderful 2 AM in London :nah: and this was the day AFTER Collins and Doc had already talked. So yeah....

We got the news that talks were going on and then a few hours later it was confirmed that there WAS in fact a deal that was DONE and would just be pending league approval the following morning. When the news broke the deal was done it was a good 1 am in the morning. It wasn't 24 hours of "oh this deal could happen" it was more like 4 hours of it before it was "Done" and pending league approval the next morning. And by the time it was "Done, pending league approval" here, it was 1 or 2 AM in London. So I very much doubt that Doc was up at that time twittering, went to find Doug Collins and then compliment him about Bynum. They had the discussion a day before that happened when Doug knew the deal was going down, so it's pretty apparent at least to me that Doc would have had no idea that Philly was getting Bynum unless Doug told him.

Doc knows and gets much more information than us.

#79 last stand 2.0

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 11:51 AM

No, Doc said this when him and Doug Collins were having a discussion by themselves that Doug Collins was referring to(this was Doug telling the media about a discussion him and Doc were having the day before Philly got Bynum but Doug knew the deal was going down, Doc didn't know) and Doc brought up low post centers and said the only one that worries him is Bynum, and Doug nearly choked probably because of the coincidence and was thinking "Well...We're getting him tomorrow" but couldn't say anything.
They were actually discussing the thing about post centers the day before the trade went down so.... yeah. Doug knew they were getting Bynum, but Doc didn't know. They were both working the Olympics together and Doug was in the know just as Mike Brown was in the know a day before the trade happened too but they weren't allowed to disclose it to anyone. So Doug Collins didn't tell Doc Rivers that. Doc had no idea that Philly was getting Bynum at the time they were having that discussion in London. So yeah, you were wrong there. Don't act like such a wiseguy if you don't know the whole story ;)


No. When doug said this he said he already knew the trade was getting done tomorrow, which meant the league knew it was getting done tomorrow.

When we get the news is after the league and it's front office memebers get the news

Not before or concurrently

So doc knew of the news as this was the night before it was sent to the league office
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#80 fido

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Posted August 21, 2012 - 12:02 PM

That's the trick isn't it Doc?

It's much easier to defend Howard when it's either him in the post for offense or a distant shot from the others.

Now that he's a Laker and he's surrounded by a far superior level of talent, the choices and array of offense is a whole lot wider. Can't double Howard down low and take your chances with low percentage shots from the outside any more.

Doc Rivers is in perpetual denial about the Lakers and their overall superiority over his Celtics. He beat the Lakers in the Finals with a hobbled Bynum and Ariza, and somehow in his head that has parlayed into some kind of perennial dominance over the Lakers. Funny, but sad.




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