79 replies to this topic

[lakerfandude]

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that Andrew Bynum is now a member of the Philadelphia 76ers who are in the same division and will be challenging them for playoff seeding all season long. You know, only 4 out of 5 teams in that division will be right in the thick of the playoff race, no big deal. They'll see the Sixers 4 times next season and could meet them early in the postseason, of course he'd pay attention to Bynum. Why would he be worried about Dwight Howard when the Celtics will only face the Lakers twice all season long? Has he ever paid such a compliment to Bynum in the past prior to him joining the 76ers? Didn't think so.

Howard has been FAR more impressive h2h against the Celtics than Bynum has been. Be it in the playoffs or regular season against the Celtics, Dwight Howard has Bynum completely beat. As expected from the superior player.

Like I said. Doc Rivers made this quote when Drew was still a Laker in the West and Howard was still a Magic in the East. How does your post make any sense?

Edited by lakerfandude, August 19, 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[last stand 2.0]

Like I said. Doc Rivers made this quote when Drew was still a Laker and Howard was still a Magic in the East. How does your post make any sense?

The quote came from Doug Collins the coach of the 76ers. The night when all of the rumors were circulating. The quote isn't even a direct quote

[lakerfandude]

The quote came from Doug Collins the coach of the 76ers. The night when all of the rumors were circulating. The quote isn't even a direct quote

Sure it is, unless you are saying Collins made all of this up. He said that Doc Rivers told him this before the trade went down.

[L.A.K.E.R]

Like I said. Doc Rivers made this quote when Drew was still a Laker in the West and Howard was still a Magic in the East. How does your post make any sense?

There is no direct quote of Rivers saying this, but according to the video he and Collins were discussing this the evening before the deal went down. Collins said that they were getting Bynum the next day, which means he had this conversation with Doc a day before the deal went down. We had all gotten word of the deal being leaked earlier the night before, it spread like wildfire across the web, and I'm pretty damn sure Doc Rivers knew about this going down before it became official.

NBA team officials are far more in the loop when it comes to these sort of things than any of us could ever be. With this involving one of the league's marquee players in Dwight Howard, I'm sure most every team's front office had gotten word of this deal prior to the media leak.

[last stand 2.0]

Sure it is, unless you are saying Collins made all of this up. He said that Doc Rivers told him this before the trade went down.

Not before the trade went down. Before the trade was official, this conversation happened the night the trade was going to be sent to the league for approval.

Unless doc was in a cave he knew Dwight was going to LA and and Bynum to philly

[last stand 2.0]

Also this is a secondhand account. Doug Collins essentially talking about his new center.

[L.A.K.E.R]

Doc Rivers has never made such a bold claim about Bynum his entire career until the night before he became a 76er. That's no coincidence.

"I'm glad Dwight is out of the East," Rivers said. "The first thing you say is, 'We hope to see you in the finals' because we don't have to worry about the West part of it. It makes the Lakers pretty good. (Andrew) Bynum was pretty good before so it's not like they changed that much. I think Bynum is the better offensive player and I think Dwight Howard is a better athlete and a better defensive player."

http://espn.go.com/b...out-of-the-east

Which translates to Doc not worrying as much about Dwight Howard because the Celtics will only see us twice a season unless we meet up in June.

[lakerfandude]

There is no direct quote of Rivers saying this, but according to the video he and Collins were discussing this the evening before the deal went down. Collins said that they were getting Bynum the next day, which means he had this conversation with Doc a day before the deal went down. We had all gotten word of the deal being leaked earlier the night before, it spread like wildfire across the web, and I'm pretty damn sure Doc Rivers knew about this going down before it became official.

NBA team officials are far more in the loop when it comes to these sort of things than any of us could ever be. With this involving one of the league's marquee players in Dwight Howard, I'm sure most every team's front office had gotten word of this deal prior to the media leak.

Obviously you didn't read the quote. Re read it please. He said that Doc told him this before the trade was announced. Collins never discussed the trade with him when the conversation took place. He said that after Doc told him this, he was "thinking", not discussing. He didn't tell Doc anything. Here is the quote.:

"It was kind of funny. [Doc Rivers and I] were talking one night, and he was talking about low-post centers and he said the only guy he really worries about is Andrew Bynum... and I was about ready to choke. I was thinking, ‘Hey, Doc we’re going to get him tomorrow.’"

[lakerfandude]

Doc Rivers has never made such a bold claim about Bynum his entire career until the night before he became a 76er. That's no coincidence.


Which translates to Doc not worrying as much about Dwight Howard because the Celtics will only see us twice a season unless we meet up in June.

He said this after the trade went down. He spoke about Bynum to Collins before the trade went down.

[last stand 2.0]

Obviously you didn't read the quote. Re read it please. He said that Doc told him this before the trade was announced. Collins never discussed the trade with him when the conversation took place. He said that after Doc told him this, he was "thinking", not discussing. He didn't tell Doc anything. Here is the quote.:

"It was kind of funny. [Doc Rivers and I] were talking one night, and he was talking about low-post centers and he said the only guy he really worries about is Andrew Bynum... and I was about ready to choke. I was thinking, ‘Hey, Doc we’re going to get him tomorrow.’"

The conversation happened the night before the trade was done. Doc and doug both knew it happened

[last stand 2.0]

He said this after the trade went down. He spoke about Bynum to Collins before the trade went down.

No, you are wrong. Doug Collins was not doc rivers only source of information. Doc could have heard about the deal from anyone, the news had been circulating the entirety of that day, the deal was agreed upon early at night around 6:30

So it wasn't a secret at the time of this conversation

[L.A.K.E.R]

Obviously you didn't read the quote. Re read it please. He said that Doc told him this before the trade was announced. Collins never discussed the trade with him when the conversation took place. He said that after Doc told him this, he was "thinking", not discussing. He didn't tell Doc anything. Here is the quote.:

"It was kind of funny. [Doc Rivers and I] were talking one night, and he was talking about low-post centers and he said the only guy he really worries about is Andrew Bynum... and I was about ready to choke. I was thinking, ‘Hey, Doc we’re going to get him tomorrow.’"

This is not a quote, it's Collins rehashing something he went over with Rivers. Doug Collins is not the sole source for Sixers trade news, Doc also has access to the internet. What do you mean they weren't discussing this? Obviously they were, otherwise Collins wouldn't know Rivers' views on Bynum. You mean the last bit? Sure, but that's not the big thing. He knew they were getting Bynum the next day, meaning that he had gotten word of the deal. Everyone else that had been following this Dwight saga (including us on these forums) had also gotten the news the night before the deal was official.

Judging by that exact quote, I'm assuming this chat happened the night before the trade became official, unless Collins was joking around with that last bit.

In any case, Dwight Howard has had MUCH more success than Andrew Bynum against the Celtics. You can throw out their early games prior to '08 before either of them became important pieces of their respective squads. Even in that case, Howard has been far more effective against the Celtics (while facing much greater defensive pressure) than Andrew Bynum. As expected from the guy who is clearly the superior player.

[Real Deal]

Doc Rivers also thought he was going to beat the Lakers in 2010.

[Majesty]

Yes, maybe, but he didn't say that Howard worried him, just Bynum. He's the only center that he is concerned about. That's not just because Bynum is in the East either, he said that when Bynum was still in the West and Howard was still in the East. That's a pretty big complement for Bynum. Doc is saying he thinks Drew is the best center..

Doc is worried about Bynum for a number of reasons. Not just his post moves, but the fact he can hit a mid range jumper and can hit free throws and thus can be given the ball late in the game. So he worries him more than Howard does probably in terms of ways he can be an offensive threat. With Howard he's gonna get you on the inside at times but doesn't have as many post moves or a mid range shot, or free throw skills that outmatch Bynum. What Howard has is freaky athleticism and commitment to defense, and a want to always finish at the basket with a dunk if possible, so he is more the force and consistent rebounder, but you can't give him the ball late or he's gonna get fouled and go to the free throw line and you take your chances there. So in Doc's mind, Bynum is gonna hurt them late whereas Howard won't(theoretically, because technically what Dwight does in the first 3 quarters would likely put the game out of reach anyway).

But I think Doc fears Bynum more in those situations because of this year, let's not forget it WAS Bynum that sealed the deal on the Celtics last year with his last second hook shot. I mean you give the ball to Bynum, he's in the post, you can't foul him, he'll make the free throws, you can't leave him, he'll score on the defender, so you're gonna have to send the double, but if Bynum makes a move before the double gets there(like he did against the Celtics) then they have no chance.

So it's very easy to see why Bynum worries him more than Dwight does from that perspective. Potential and youth probably has him worried too, when it comes to Howard what you see is what you get, he's well scouted and has given you the same for the last few years while adding some post moves and is always impressive with not much else to learn. With Bynum it's pretty much if he learns to pass out of double teams, and stays consistent on defense, he's more than likely the most complete center in the league and one of the most dangerous. Buddy Baer said "The scariest thing in boxing is standing across the ring form Joe Louis and knowing he wants to go home early." In Doc's case its "the scariest thing in basketball, is facing a team with Andrew Bynum and noticing he's focused." oh and "that Kobe Bryant is pissed"

I'm sure in the back of his mind, Doc hopes that Andrew has one of those "off nights" but if playing in Philly and for Coach Collins matures him like I think it will, he'll see it less and less.

This is why I'm excited for the rivalry Bynum and Dwight will share, and i'm 100% sure whenever Philly plays the Lakers, we'll get the dialed in Bynum. See, we always would complain about how Bynum wasn't dialed in enough, you can bet your bottom dollar he'll be dialed in every time he faces us, so enjoy

I'm just glad we have Dwight right now and it will be great watching them go at it

I think centers are about to make a comeback in the coming years.

Edited by Majesty, August 20, 2012 - 12:38 AM.

[last stand 2.0]

Dwight is a year older and yet has nothing to learn. Sounds like the same bs that people spewed about Lebron

The old he's all athleticism and will never improve his skillet. Here comes 2011 Lebron with a destructive post game

Dwight still has a ton to learn and room to grow. Yes Bynum has more touch and length but dwight has something drew will never have. Elite stamina

Shaq, kg, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem, rodman, all Could expend elite effort on both sides of the ball for a full 35-40 minutes

Bynum cannot. It's one or the other and any extended minutes and both sides of the ball suffer. He huffs and puffs up and down the floor.

I honestly don't think he was just intentionally not giving effort. I think he was incapable of sustaining that effort. He tries to increase his stamina every offseason and yet his stamina never shows up. He just has a natural lack of elite stamina

That will prevent him from ever being a complete center for a full season. If you surround him with athletic defenders then he can get by concentrating on offense which would allow him to be very effective. He'll be able to put up 22-25 points, but his defense will suffer.

Potential is easier to realize when there aren't physical issues. Howard has no physical issues. Long arms, strength, athleticism, stamina are all there. Bynum not so much

[Hollywood]

I was speaking like i was Doc haha. My bad lakerfandude.

[bfc1125roy]

Wow this seems to be turning into another Howard vs. Bynum debate. I'll throw in a few points, that most Bynum supporters have trouble refuting.

1) Physically. Howard is far superior. His body can hold up for 82 games, he's mobile and has stamina. Bynum in contrast doesn't have the stamina to be a primary option offensively and a legitimate defensive anchor, and he struggles because he has chronic knee problems, so he can't put more weight on his knees, which are already limiting him physically. Even if Bynum were to put in all the effort in the world, he's still behind Howard because of this reason.

2) Offensively. Bynum might have 2-3 more back to the basket moves, but he doesn't have the overall offensive game Howard has. Howard's ability to get out of the paint rather than camp there, and the fact that he doesn't hold the ball and spend 10 seconds dribbling in the post, makes it easier on perimeter players. Once Bynum got a semblance of the defensive attention Howard receives on a nightly basis, his percentages nosedived. Give Howard the single coverage Bynum gets, and he'll drop 40/20 while setting a freethrow record (look at the ORL-GSW game this year). Bynum in Philly might score 20-25 points, but he'll do it on under 50% shooting. People criticize me for reading too much into a 7 game sample, to which all I can say is watch next season and quote me on this as much as you want then But even if you don't want to buy that argument, look to the fact that Bynum has trouble facilitating out of the post, making it impossible to run an offense through him, and the fact that a Perkins front that pushed him 2-3 feet out of the block took him out of the OKC series (check his shooting percentages from games 2-5 if you don't believe me).

3) Defensively. Does not need explanation.

Not sure why this topic has ever been debated. Maybe Rivers is worried because Bynum is in the East now and they don't have Perkins, but if the Celtics somehow make it to the NBA finals, watch Doc [expletive] himself once Howard throws down that first lob off the Nash PnR.

Edited by bfc1125roy, August 20, 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[Majesty]

All the people saying "Doc said it because Bynum is in the east now" you ARE aware that when Doc said this he was under the impression that Bynum was still a Laker right?

[MyJohnsonIsMagic]

Bynum fans, lookem up for a good lol every now and again.

[bfc1125roy]

All the people saying "Doc said it because Bynum is in the east now" you ARE aware that when Doc said this he was under the impression that Bynum was still a Laker right?

I stand corrected then, but I said maybe

If that's the case, then it's either because Doc was more worried about the Lakers as a team, or he's just dumb.