Jump to content




Photo

Can Mike Brown handle this team?


  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

#61 last stand 2.0

last stand 2.0

    Legend

  • 18,367 posts
  • Joined: Jul 29, 2008
  • Location:LA

Posted October 12, 2012 - 03:14 PM

If brown screws ups rotations then it's on him. Our players have very obvious skill sets and should be put into rotation accordingly
Posted Image

#62 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 30,483 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted October 12, 2012 - 03:47 PM

Nice, hash out the same excuses from last season. Comparing Brown to Phil is laughable because Phil could command a team. He had a presence that demanded the respect of the players on this team. When was the last time we saw a player openly defying Phil Jackson on the bench? Mike Brown does not command that respect. He is not a good head coach and it has been my stance since day one. Brown only helped to justify it with his terrible job last season. No training camp or preparation time has been an awfully convenient excuse for the last year. He wasn't the only coach that had to adjust to those conditions.

Mike Brown is a bad head coach. He was bad in Cleveland, and he was bad in his first season here. He installed an offense that had zero hope of working out last season (evident early on, RD pointed it out before the season even began), our defense was actually worse than it was under Phil Jackson (despite Brown being a so-called defensive guru), and he commands zero respect from the personnel. I don't care if he's likable to the players, that doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to head coaching. From what I've seen of him via interviews, talking to the media, and the general behind the scenes stuff, he tries too hard to endear himself to his players as one of the guys. That doesn't work; a coach needs to establish his presence and command the respect of the team. He hasn't done that, and I don't expect that he will.

You trust him because we didn't tank? Wow, such high standards. I don't trust him because of his decisions from last season and his inability to make any adjustments when we needed them.

Hated the hiring from day one but I gave him a chance early last season. 3 weeks in, I knew things weren't going to get much better. I saw Steve Blake get major minutes at two guard, a rotation that wasn't set even a round into the postseason, Kobe Bryant logging 100 out of a possible 106 minutes in a back-to-back set with two games going into OT, and many other mishaps throughout the season. These aren't due to a shortened training camp or preseason, but because he doesn't know a damn thing about running a team. It was on full display throughout his tenure in Cleveland where he was unable to install any set offensive system and when he was destroyed in the playoffs due to an inability to adjust to the opposition (Dwight Howard in '09, Rondo in '10).

This team is talented enough to win a title, we have every necessary component. It comes down to whether or not Mike Brown will [expletive] us over with his lack of coaching ability. We have three of the smartest players in the game on this roster alongside one of the best defensive anchors in league history. As long as Mike Brown doesn't do anything inherently stupid, we should be able to contend for a title. Talented players can hide the flaws of an incapable coach, it's been like that for decades now.

I trust Kobe and Nash to lead this team, not Mike Brown.



Not sure if trolling or if you just hate Brown that much. Bad in Cleveland? Really? Cleveland was one of the top offensive AND defensive teams in the league when he coached there.

Our defense was worse than it was under Phil Jackson... sure lets give Phil Jackson a bench of Jason Kapono and Troy Murphy, let's also give him Andrew Goudelock at the 2 and a bench so lacking we have to depend on a point guard to play the two spot and a unit where we'd actually have to play Luke Walton. Because I'm sure having Shannon and Lamar Odom on Phil's roster did squat for us defensively :)

Where did we rank defensively when Phil had squat on the team except Kobe Bryant? Exactly.

If you want to be honest, when Brown was a Cleveland and LeBron had "nobody" around him, they were a deeper team than the Lakers were last year. Sorry but it's true.

And if you actually followed Mike Brown or know his history you'd know that the way he deals with the media is different than how he deals with his players. Since you keep up with interviews I'm surprised you didn't catch when the reporters asked why Brown seems passive at times to the media. And Brown said "I'm not the type of guy that feels the need to blast guys in the media when I can deal with them in the locker room and man to man, so I don't need to go bash them in the media to get my point across, if I know they played bad or are lacking or need to get at them, I'll do it directly to them, but I don't need to go out into the media to do it."

And they responded "So when you say 'you're ok' with the effort in the media..that may not be necessarily what you're saying to them in private?"

And Brown said "that's a fair way to put it." with a smile.


So if he seems passive and such in the media, he does it intentionally, he tears into them behind the scenes and doesn't feel the need to draw attention to himself or them within the media and honestly I'd like to see that more often. He's not a coach that acts like he's bigger than the team and when he needs to tear into them the media will never know about it. We already saw when Bynum did a dumb thing shooting a three Brown benched him no questions asked. Brown has also shown he'll stick up for the players, this is a coach that nearly went after Blake Griffin for pushing Morris after a dunk and went on a riot when he felt Pau was fouled and had to be restrained.

The guy does care about the team and is very passionate about it, he just doesn't feel the need to rip them in the media when he can do it in private on a man-to-man or team basis. I don't have a problem with this, why should you?

You complain about Blake getting minutes at the 2 guard when defensively he was our best defender at the 2 spot aside from Kobe. I'm sorry but that's honest. THAT is how lacking our bench was last year. Unless you want to make a case for Goudelock being a better defender at 2 than Blake....

And before you say Ebanks remember last year he had no range, he was mid range at best and he couldn't stretch the floor which is what Brown needed from him. That's why he was put at the 3 at times, if he had the range he has this year he would have probably been the choice for backup 2 last year.

We had to play small forwards and point guards at the 2 last year because we had no depth whatsoever. So if you're gonna complain about Blake playing the bench 2 defensively I'd love for you to tell me who on that roster was better suited for backup 2 defensively aside from Blake. Don't worry I'll wait :)

He couldn't install any set offensive system in Cleveland... :blink: right... that's why they were one of the top offensive and defensive teams in the league and had the best record what was it.. 3 years in a row? Yes Brown was such a terrible coach in Cleveland <_<

Sad truth is this, when Cleveland had "nobody" around LeBron..their team was still deeper than ours was last year :laughing:

We were within striking distance of the 2nd seed in the west and considering the lack of depth we have it can be argued we overachieved.

But Brown shall not get credit for this...


So now with a full pre-season and him taking full advantage of it to learn about our different players and combos to run(stuff he won't HAVE to do during the season cause we actually have time now) making great off-season hiring and improving our coaching staff all around, and people still are gonna focus on last year. Brown could have not done any of that, but he's still not going to get any credit from you whatsoever is he? You called him a terrible coach in Cleveland <_< From that I can tell you seriously just hate Mike Brown, as a head coach anyway. I've never heard a coach getting hated so much for actually using the pre-season like it was intended.

Believe what you want to believe, and when it comes to Phil's command of a teams respect, he lost the team in that final year. The only people he didn't lose on that team was Fisher and Kobe. The year we got swept he'd lost the team, anyone could obviously see that. The only guy that was still working hard and staying to his philosophy was Kobe and Fisher because of their loyalty and years with him. Phil got to a point where he stopped being that guy that would DEMAND the respect of his players and was content to let them play through it. See the whole "we'll turn it on in the playoffs" the old Phil Jackson would never have stood for. I remember when Phil would get so angry at lack of effort he'd stop calling players by their names and simply refer to them as "YOU!". He told the Lakers simply when facing Dallas "just don't let them make threes" and when the players would do it for 3 quarters and Phil sat back and let them play through it, kept them missing assignments and waited till Dallas pulled ahead by 6 or 7 points to call a time out, at that point it was obvious that Phil realized that his team was no longer listening to him(aside from Fisher and Kobe) so he was content to sit there while we lost.

Kobe even went over how pissed he was not just over the effort but of the blowup of the team during their loss and said the team had been playing with fire for a long time and had finally gotten what they deserved.

I got all the respect in the world for Phil, but everyone saw he lost the team that final year, only Kobe and Fisher stayed with it..well Luke too..but he didn't play anyway so it doesn't matter :laughing:

One of the reasons Kobe likes Mike Brown so much is because he's very specific and perfectionistic and very hands on with each player and a true student of the game and scholar. It's what him and Kobe can connect on. But Kobe also appreciates how tough Brown can be on players INCLUDING him and how he holds everyone accountable for their actions and deals with them as follows. Kobe appreciates it and would be the last person to call Brown soft.

Just because he doesn't send subliminal shots at them through the media doesn't mean he isn't digging into them when they mess up.

Weren't people sort of talking about Brown tearing into the Lakers in their 2nd pre-season game with some posts like "someone should tell Brown this game doesn't matter." yes... a coach ripping into his teams effort during pre-season is definitely a coach that doesn't demand respect and presence of his players. :blink:

To each their own, we'll see what's what when the season rolls around :)

If brown screws ups rotations then it's on him. Our players have very obvious skill sets and should be put into rotation accordingly



The Princeton is designed to maximize efficiency of players and their skills at different areas and positions. So it's basically an offense where we could run a bunch of different rotations depending on what defense we see being played etc. So if you want to change around lineups depending on the depth of your bench etc, then the Princeton is a great system. So it fits well into that as well.

Edited by Majesty, October 12, 2012 - 03:49 PM.

 

I've always liked Steve Blake.

 


#63 bfc1125roy

bfc1125roy

    Superstar

  • 3,763 posts
  • Joined: Dec 10, 2011
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 12, 2012 - 03:59 PM

No prepare time and no time to work on things can do that.


I mean, it took RD a preseason game to realize it wouldn't work. It took me a bit longer, but pretty much everyone can agree both the offense and rotations sucked. And Kobe was playing 38 minutes a night as a result.

Despite that Mike didn't want to go into that direction this year at all and changed up things. He gets no credit for taking Kobe's advice on the Princeton and hiring Eddie Jordan, he gets no credit for bringing in another great defensive coach that has a similar defensive style to Tom T. He gets no credit for bringing in Bernie and vastly improving our coaching staff.


I give him full credit for this, and my past posts indicate that.

People bring up last years issues but are first to ignore what's relevant now, which is we have a very good offensive system and a good coaching staff that if Mike Brown didn't want he wouldn't have hired.


What's also evidence is his lack of management skills and the fact that his rotations already don't look so good.

It's just like the people that focus on MWP's horrible start to last year and mark his late surge as irrelevant, then he came into this year with the same intensity and is playing great.


Right, MWP responded by getting healthy and playing well. MB responded to the teams offensive struggles by derping around on the bench. Now he changes the system but there's still a lot of indicators that he isn't going to be a great head coach.

So people are gonna focus on Mike Brown's mistakes last year and completely ignore the improvements he's made this year.


The Princeton offense can only get us so far. If Kobe' and Steve Nash are playing 38 minutes a night and he plays Jamison for significant minutes at the 3 a lot can go wrong.

The guy can't win no matter what he does, even if we win he won't get credit.


I give Phil credit because of how he took the Lakers from 1998-1999 and turned them into a championship team from 1999-2000. He did similar things to the Bulls. Right now if I look at Mike Brown's score, he's not doing awfully well. If we win a championship, it will likely be because of Kobe, Nash, and Howard. MB is replaceable and an average head coach in the league. His offensive understanding of the game is limited and his defensive abilities are overrated. People overlook Michael Malone, the defensive assistant in Cleveland, who was the true mastermind behind that scheme.

#64 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 30,483 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted October 12, 2012 - 04:15 PM

What's also evidence is his lack of management skills and the fact that his rotations already don't look so good.


Are we really gonna judge rotations in 2 pre-season games when he's giving everyone some burn? I thought his rotations in the Blazers game was pretty good when we went on that 19-5 run.

We have Sacre starting and we don't have Jordan Hill and Brown has said so himself that the rotations we're using now aren't gonna be the ones he's really intending when the season rolls around, mainly because we don't have Jordan Hill, or Dwight Howard, and second of all because the 2nd unit is gonna be run with Gasol and Howard playing some 5 during it. So we haven't really seen any rotations that we'll be going with as of yet. It's two games into the pre-season and he's giving players some burn. If he was doing this during the season I'd be worried, but he's doing it in the pre-season like he's supposed to be doing.

Right, MWP responded by getting healthy and playing well. MB responded to the teams offensive struggles by derping around on the bench. Now he changes the system but there's still a lot of indicators that he isn't going to be a great head coach.


Yes he changed the system and got us a better coaching staff, that was his response and you can't deny how good our offense is looking thus far in the pre-season even without the main guys running it. Haven't seen many forced shots and the missed shots are usually wide open, that's an offensive system we can get with. We're also mixing in some stuff from last year that worked with Gasol and Bynum but will work better with Gasol and Howard and we have an actual point guard that can run the offense in separate ways. Brown has even said that we've only shown about 30% of the offense we're actually going to be running and I like our offense already so I can't wait to see the other 70% :glasses:


The Princeton offense can only get us so far. If Kobe' and Steve Nash are playing 38 minutes a night and he plays Jamison for significant minutes at the 3 a lot can go wrong.


Kobe and Nash won't be playing 38 minutes a night strictly because they won't have to. Our bench is much deeper than last year so there's no reason for Kobe to have to play long or Nash to play long. The guys getting extended minutes this pre-season are getting them because Brown is trying to get them in conditioning shape. And Brown is playing Jamison at the 3 because he's planning on running some rotations with Jamison at the 3 Hill at the 4 and Howard or Gasol at the 5. That's all. Mike Brown has also said he'll be moving Jamison to the 4 for some lineups too which is also fine, because if he wants to play Ebanks or CDR at the 3 he can slide Jamison to the 4, Hill will sit and Gasol or Howard will be the 5. We got a deep enough team with enough combo players we an play them and switch them up at 2 separate positions. CDR and Ebanks at the 2/3 Jamison at the 3/4 Meeks at the 1/2 so I like it.

Besides the reason you'll see Jamison at the 3 at times is because if they get past him they'll have to deal with Howard at the basket.

Our team is running lineups with the thought of Howard in mind at certain times of inefficiencies. We need to take that into account as well.

I'm not worried about Jamison at the 3 in certain lineups if Howard is at the rim. Are you? :glasses:
 

I've always liked Steve Blake.

 


#65 L.A.K.E.R

L.A.K.E.R

    Gomu Gomu

  • 14,596 posts
  • Joined: Jul 24, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Name:Shamim
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 12, 2012 - 05:02 PM

Not sure if trolling or if you just hate Brown that much. Bad in Cleveland? Really? Cleveland was one of the top offensive AND defensive teams in the league when he coached there.

Yes, and then they were overwhelmed in the postseason both years despite coming in as the #1 overall seed with HCA throughout the postseason. Mike Brown was unable to adapt to Dwight Howard in '09 and Rajon Rondo in '10. He couldn't figure out a defensive gameplan for either despite Dwight Howard not yet having developed his offensive game (that would come around the summer of '10) and Rajon Rondo incapable of doing anything once they played off of him. They should have been able to beat both teams if they were really so great on both ends of the floor, but instead they were overwhelmed because Brown was unable to adjust to either team in a 7 game series, much like how we did nothing to curb the assault from Westbrook in the 2nd round.

Our defense was worse than it was under Phil Jackson... sure lets give Phil Jackson a bench of Jason Kapono and Troy Murphy, let's also give him Andrew Goudelock at the 2 and a bench so lacking we have to depend on a point guard to play the two spot and a unit where we'd actually have to play Luke Walton. Because I'm sure having Shannon and Lamar Odom on Phil's roster did squat for us defensively :)

Where did we rank defensively when Phil had squat on the team except Kobe Bryant? Exactly.

If you want to be honest, when Brown was a Cleveland and LeBron had "nobody" around him, they were a deeper team than the Lakers were last year. Sorry but it's true.

Wait, Mike Brown had Smush Parker and Kwame Brown, not Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum? Weird. He had the same Andrew Bynum everyone was gushing over this past season. The same Andrew Bynum who is widely considered the 2nd best center in the entire league. Pau Gasol isn't too shabby either, both are better than any single teammate Kobe Bryant had during that horrible stretch of the mid-00s, even when their play is lacking. Entirely different circumstances, Brown basically inherited the team from '11 minus Lamar Odom, Shannon Brown, and a handful of bench fodder. Not a huge difference when you consider the rapid improvement of Bynum from a decent big to one of the best in the league.

Shannon was a terrible defensive player by the end of his tenure here (you don't remember the Finals?) and Lamar Odom was merely decent, nothing spectacular. Neither were make or break defensive studs in our system.

Our bench was so lacking that it made sense to NOT play the only other 2 guard on our roster at the backup SG position and instead rely upon our backup PG. Who was equally terrible at both positions, but I'm already aware of your position on that.

And if you actually followed Mike Brown or know his history you'd know that the way he deals with the media is different than how he deals with his players. Since you keep up with interviews I'm surprised you didn't catch when the reporters asked why Brown seems passive at times to the media. And Brown said "I'm not the type of guy that feels the need to blast guys in the media when I can deal with them in the locker room and man to man, so I don't need to go bash them in the media to get my point across, if I know they played bad or are lacking or need to get at them, I'll do it directly to them, but I don't need to go out into the media to do it."

And they responded "So when you say 'you're ok' with the effort in the media..that may not be necessarily what you're saying to them in private?"

And Brown said "that's a fair way to put it." with a smile.

So if he seems passive and such in the media, he does it intentionally, he tears into them behind the scenes and doesn't feel the need to draw attention to himself or them within the media and honestly I'd like to see that more often. He's not a coach that acts like he's bigger than the team and when he needs to tear into them the media will never know about it. We already saw when Bynum did a dumb thing shooting a three Brown benched him no questions asked. Brown has also shown he'll stick up for the players, this is a coach that nearly went after Blake Griffin for pushing Morris after a dunk and went on a riot when he felt Pau was fouled and had to be restrained.

The guy does care about the team and is very passionate about it, he just doesn't feel the need to rip them in the media when he can do it in private on a man-to-man or team basis. I don't have a problem with this, why should you?

Because we got our asses kicked in the playoffs and Cleveland got their asses kicked in consecutive postseasons as title contenders. Obviously his method doesn't work because we had too many people playing half-assed last season. His passivity has led to his teams being embarrassed when the going got tough.

A coach doesn't need to be bigger than the team, but he needs to be able to command the respect of the team. That's what makes guys like Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich so effective; they know how to control their teams. Mike Brown in Cleveland let LeBron do whatever the hell he wanted (like many in that organization) and last season he couldn't fix any of our problems midway through the season after giving so much leeway to the players on the roster. Bynum tuned him out, Kobe tuned him out at times, and various players had issues with his rotations and minute allocations throughout the entire year.

You complain about Blake getting minutes at the 2 guard when defensively he was our best defender at the 2 spot aside from Kobe. I'm sorry but that's honest. THAT is how lacking our bench was last year. Unless you want to make a case for Goudelock being a better defender at 2 than Blake....

And before you say Ebanks remember last year he had no range, he was mid range at best and he couldn't stretch the floor which is what Brown needed from him. That's why he was put at the 3 at times, if he had the range he has this year he would have probably been the choice for backup 2 last year.

We had to play small forwards and point guards at the 2 last year because we had no depth whatsoever. So if you're gonna complain about Blake playing the bench 2 defensively I'd love for you to tell me who on that roster was better suited for backup 2 defensively aside from Blake. Don't worry I'll wait :)

You won't have to wait very long, Blake was the worst decision ever at backup 2. You seem to be the only one on these boards who thinks he did a good job judging by your praise. Goudelock is a two-guard, Blake is not. It's really very simple. Blake's defense at the 2 guard was so excellent that he absolutely locked down the opposition, right? That's what it sounds like when you gush about his defense compared to Goudelock. Sorry, I'd rather have the guy who has actually played the position than one who can barely fulfill his original duties as a backup PG (at which Blake is very lackluster).

Blake isn't even effective at stretching the floor, his sub 38% from the field in his two years with the Lakers is testament to that. Ebanks could have been serviceable at some point, but we never would have known because he was thrown into the doghouse after the first week of the season. We didn't catch a glimpse of him in meaningful time until Kobe sat out a few games. Then he went back to the bench until MWP was suspended. Once MWP came back, he was again relegated to the bench.

If you're going to rave about Blake's defensive ability at the backup 2 (which is pretty silly considering how terrible he is defensively), you might want to make a stronger case. Either Goudelock or Ebanks would have been preferable. Goudelock could at least shoot the ball and play like a 2 guard on the offensive end while Ebanks had superior length and athleticism defensively. Either would have been better than Blake at the 2, which was an absolute disaster.

He couldn't install any set offensive system in Cleveland... :blink: right... that's why they were one of the top offensive and defensive teams in the league and had the best record what was it.. 3 years in a row? Yes Brown was such a terrible coach in Cleveland Posted Image

Sad truth is this, when Cleveland had "nobody" around LeBron..their team was still deeper than ours was last year :laughing:

We were within striking distance of the 2nd seed in the west and considering the lack of depth we have it can be argued we overachieved.

But Brown shall not get credit for this...

Did you even watch the Cleveland Cavaliers? Their offense was centered around LeBron James isolation, pick and roll action, and basically LeBron driving and kicking to open shooters once the defense collapsed. That's it. They were overwhelmed when the postseason came around because they had no system in place. Once LeBron was cut off due to his lack of a perimeter game at the time, they completely imploded. This was further compounded by Brown's inability to make adjustments, such as sticking LeBron on Rashard Lewis in the '09 ECF, keeping Ben Wallace out of the game (because he was useless), or playing off Rajon Rondo in the '10 postseason.

As great as they were defensively, they were obliterated by the Magic and Celtics in consecutive seasons. Not due to any ridiculously complex offensive scheme mind you, but the simplest of basketball principles: forcing the issue when they find a definite advantage. For the Magic it was feeding Dwight Howard down low to force his way to the basket every other possession, for the Celtics it was freeing up a driving lane for Rondo to attack and go to work.

In the '08-09 regular season Dwight Howard averaged 21/14 on 57 % shooting.
Against Cleveland in the ECF he averaged 26/13 on 65% shooting.

In the '09-10 regular season Rajon Rondo averaged 14/4/10 on 51% shooting.
Against Cleveland in the 2nd round, he averaged 21/6/12 on 54% shooting.

For a guy who is supposedly a "great" defensive head coach, he had no clue on how to curb the effectiveness of either of these players come the postseason. Both were the focal points of their teams' offense in each series, both went off and performed better than they did in the regular season by exploiting the same weaknesses time and time again. The Cavaliers were crushed both times. How exactly is Mike Brown a "great" defensive coach again?

One of the reasons Kobe likes Mike Brown so much is because he's very specific and perfectionistic and very hands on with each player and a true student of the game and scholar. It's what him and Kobe can connect on. But Kobe also appreciates how tough Brown can be on players INCLUDING him and how he holds everyone accountable for their actions and deals with them as follows. Kobe appreciates it and would be the last person to call Brown soft.

Just because he doesn't send subliminal shots at them through the media doesn't mean he isn't digging into them when they mess up.

Yeah, that's great. Such a perfectionist that he didn't want to mess with the disaster of an offense he brought in at the start of the year. Kobe's enthusiasm for Mike Brown began to falter early after the first few weeks of last season. It was evident in his body language on the court throughout the mid-late portions of the year and in his frustration after we were eliminated.

Brown let Kobe chuck early and often last season in our mess of an offense. This isn't considering attempts at the end of the shot clock, but early on. He didn't get on Pau Gasol for his lack of aggressiveness when playing with the 2nd unit. Didn't get on Andrew Bynum for his laziness in transition. Ron Artest chucked up many awkward looks off-balance with little hope of going into the basket. Steve Blake routinely got burned in his time on the court. Sessions wasn't as aggressive to finish the year, slowly turning into another stiff standing beyond the arc. That's keeping everyone accountable?

You seem to have all the faith in the world in Mike Brown and I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but I've seen enough of this clown. He was terrible in Cleveland, terrible his first season here, and I'm praying he's not terrible enough to keep us from winning a championship in Kobe's final years.

#66 bfc1125roy

bfc1125roy

    Superstar

  • 3,763 posts
  • Joined: Dec 10, 2011
  • Fan Since:2004
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 12, 2012 - 05:13 PM

You seem to have all the faith in the world in Mike Brown and I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but I've seen enough of this clown. He was terrible in Cleveland, terrible his first season here, and I'm praying he's not terrible enough to keep us from winning a championship in Kobe's final years.


I think if Miami managed LA should be able to as well. It's hard to go too wrong with Kobe, Nash, and Howard on your team. Even if they just give the ball to Nash and tell him to go we'd probably see decent results.

#67 Majesty

Majesty

    Grats on making the Raiderettes cuzzo!!

  • 30,483 posts
  • Joined: Dec 11, 2011
  • Name:Jay
  • Fan Since:1987
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe present, Magic past

Posted October 12, 2012 - 05:20 PM

Yes, and then they were overwhelmed in the postseason both years despite coming in as the #1 overall seed with HCA throughout the postseason. Mike Brown was unable to adapt to Dwight Howard in '09 and Rajon Rondo in '10. He couldn't figure out a defensive gameplan for either despite Dwight Howard not yet having developed his offensive game (that would come around the summer of '10) and Rajon Rondo incapable of doing anything once they played off of him. They should have been able to beat both teams if they were really so great on both ends of the floor, but instead they were overwhelmed because Brown was unable to adjust to either team in a 7 game series, much like how we did nothing to curb the assault from Westbrook in the 2nd round.


Dwight in 09 was unguardable by every stretch. Cleveland couldn't deal with Dwight, ZI isn't gonna be able to deal with the likes of Howard. The problem Cleveland had was their inability to guard Orlando's 3 point shooting and Rashard Lewis really came out that year as did Rafer Alston in Nelsons absense. It was more than Dwight that fell the Cavs that year, but I picked the Magic to beat them midway through the season and everyone thought I was crazy. When it came to the Celtics, Cleveland was in most games and the game everyone started to question LeBron was the one where Mo Williams kept the Cavs in the game for a majority of it and then when it fell upon LeBron to close it out and get them over the hump he didn't. But let's not sell the Celtics short. Losing to the Magic in 09 and the Celtics in 10. The Celtics took US 7 games and the Magic was a challenge for us and it was the heroics of Fisher and the spectacular play of Gasol that helped us majorly against the Magic. Simply put we were a deeper team than Cleveland the year we beat the Magic and we had more answers for Howard. Pau Gasol back then > ZI. But Mike Brown didn't lose to scrubs. Those were VERY tough teams so I'm not gonna call him a terrible coach for losing to a Celtics team that took us 7 games when we were deeper than Cleveland or the Magic.

When it comes to us getting roughed up by Westbrook. There's not much you can do to defend westbrook when your center isn't a good defender of the PnR. Westbrook tears up every PG in the NBA, Yes Bynum had a fantastic year but his PnR defense wasn't particularly good and actually it had been better years prior than his 'breakout' one. I'll answer more of this later as I have to head home now. so I'll be back in a bit.

Wait, Mike Brown had Smush Parker and Kwame Brown, not Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum? Weird. He had the same Andrew Bynum everyone was gushing over this past season. The same Andrew Bynum who is widely considered the 2nd best center in the entire league. Pau Gasol isn't too shabby either, both are better than any single teammate Kobe Bryant had during that horrible stretch of the mid-00s, even when their play is lacking. Entirely different circumstances, Brown basically inherited the team from '11 minus Lamar Odom, Shannon Brown, and a handful of bench fodder. Not a huge difference when you consider the rapid improvement of Bynum from a decent big to one of the best in the league.

Shannon was a terrible defensive player by the end of his tenure here (you don't remember the Finals?) and Lamar Odom was merely decent, nothing spectacular. Neither were make or break defensive studs in our system.

Our bench was so lacking that it made sense to NOT play the only other 2 guard on our roster at the backup SG position and instead rely upon our backup PG. Who was equally terrible at both positions, but I'm already aware of your position on that.


Because we got our asses kicked in the playoffs and Cleveland got their asses kicked in consecutive postseasons as title contenders. Obviously his method doesn't work because we had too many people playing half-assed last season. His passivity has led to his teams being embarrassed when the going got tough.

A coach doesn't need to be bigger than the team, but he needs to be able to command the respect of the team. That's what makes guys like Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich so effective; they know how to control their teams. Mike Brown in Cleveland let LeBron do whatever the hell he wanted (like many in that organization) and last season he couldn't fix any of our problems midway through the season after giving so much leeway to the players on the roster. Bynum tuned him out, Kobe tuned him out at times, and various players had issues with his rotations and minute allocations throughout the entire year.


You won't have to wait very long, Blake was the worst decision ever at backup 2. You seem to be the only one on these boards who thinks he did a good job judging by your praise. Goudelock is a two-guard, Blake is not. It's really very simple. Blake's defense at the 2 guard was so excellent that he absolutely locked down the opposition, right? That's what it sounds like when you gush about his defense compared to Goudelock. Sorry, I'd rather have the guy who has actually played the position than one who can barely fulfill his original duties as a backup PG (at which Blake is very lackluster).

Blake isn't even effective at stretching the floor, his sub 38% from the field in his two years with the Lakers is testament to that. Ebanks could have been serviceable at some point, but we never would have known because he was thrown into the doghouse after the first week of the season. We didn't catch a glimpse of him in meaningful time until Kobe sat out a few games. Then he went back to the bench until MWP was suspended. Once MWP came back, he was again relegated to the bench.

If you're going to rave about Blake's defensive ability at the backup 2 (which is pretty silly considering how terrible he is defensively), you might want to make a stronger case. Either Goudelock or Ebanks would have been preferable. Goudelock could at least shoot the ball and play like a 2 guard on the offensive end while Ebanks had superior length and athleticism defensively. Either would have been better than Blake at the 2, which was an absolute disaster.


Did you even watch the Cleveland Cavaliers? Their offense was centered around LeBron James isolation, pick and roll action, and basically LeBron driving and kicking to open shooters once the defense collapsed. That's it. They were overwhelmed when the postseason came around because they had no system in place. Once LeBron was cut off due to his lack of a perimeter game at the time, they completely imploded. This was further compounded by Brown's inability to make adjustments, such as sticking LeBron on Rashard Lewis in the '09 ECF, keeping Ben Wallace out of the game (because he was useless), or playing off Rajon Rondo in the '10 postseason.

As great as they were defensively, they were obliterated by the Magic and Celtics in consecutive seasons. Not due to any ridiculously complex offensive scheme mind you, but the simplest of basketball principles: forcing the issue when they find a definite advantage. For the Magic it was feeding Dwight Howard down low to force his way to the basket every other possession, for the Celtics it was freeing up a driving lane for Rondo to attack and go to work.

In the '08-09 regular season Dwight Howard averaged 21/14 on 57 % shooting.
Against Cleveland in the ECF he averaged 26/13 on 65% shooting.

In the '09-10 regular season Rajon Rondo averaged 14/4/10 on 51% shooting.
Against Cleveland in the 2nd round, he averaged 21/6/12 on 54% shooting.

For a guy who is supposedly a "great" defensive head coach, he had no clue on how to curb the effectiveness of either of these players come the postseason. Both were the focal points of their teams' offense in each series, both went off and performed better than they did in the regular season by exploiting the same weaknesses time and time again. The Cavaliers were crushed both times. How exactly is Mike Brown a "great" defensive coach again?


Yeah, that's great. Such a perfectionist that he didn't want to mess with the disaster of an offense he brought in at the start of the year. Kobe's enthusiasm for Mike Brown began to falter early after the first few weeks of last season. It was evident in his body language on the court throughout the mid-late portions of the year and in his frustration after we were eliminated.

Brown let Kobe chuck early and often last season in our mess of an offense. This isn't considering attempts at the end of the shot clock, but early on. He didn't get on Pau Gasol for his lack of aggressiveness when playing with the 2nd unit. Didn't get on Andrew Bynum for his laziness in transition. Ron Artest chucked up many awkward looks off-balance with little hope of going into the basket. Steve Blake routinely got burned in his time on the court. Sessions wasn't as aggressive to finish the year, slowly turning into another stiff standing beyond the arc. That's keeping everyone accountable?

You seem to have all the faith in the world in Mike Brown and I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but I've seen enough of this clown. He was terrible in Cleveland, terrible his first season here, and I'm praying he's not terrible enough to keep us from winning a championship in Kobe's final years.


 

I've always liked Steve Blake.

 


#68 L.A.K.E.R

L.A.K.E.R

    Gomu Gomu

  • 14,596 posts
  • Joined: Jul 24, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Name:Shamim
  • Fan Since:2000
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 12, 2012 - 05:55 PM

Dwight in 09 was unguardable by every stretch. Cleveland couldn't deal with Dwight, ZI isn't gonna be able to deal with the likes of Howard. The problem Cleveland had was their inability to guard Orlando's 3 point shooting and Rashard Lewis really came out that year as did Rafer Alston in Nelsons absense. It was more than Dwight that fell the Cavs that year, but I picked the Magic to beat them midway through the season and everyone thought I was crazy.


He was not unguardable in the least. Dwight's offensive game was still extremely raw (which we took full advantage of in the Finals) and his repertoire consisted of dunks, putbacks and layups at point blank range. That was it. The key to guarding him was to crowd him in the paint, force him to dish it out, or to deny him post position in transition (like we did with Gasol). It wasn't very difficult to stop Howard at all, we limited him to a total of 21/43 in FGM/FGA whereas Cleveland allowed him to dominate with 60/99. They didn't adjust to him at all, letting him decimate both from the field and by getting to the line an average of 11 times a game. Courtesy of Mike Brown.

It was pretty much Dwight Howard who took them down. He put up better numbers in that series than he did on average against Cleveland that season. Rashard put up numbers right around his season average in point per game (18.3 vs. 17.7 regular season) and actually made fewer 3PM per game than he did during the season (2.5 vs. 2.8). Hedo Turkoglu put up virtually the same numbers with an uptick in assists per game, lesser efficiency. Rafer Alston also put up identical numbers on lesser efficiency.

Mike Brown didn't adjust his defense accordingly and was obliterated by the opposing teams best player ever game until it culminated in a 40 point explosion in Game 6 that knocked the Cavaliers right out of the postseason.

Those were VERY tough teams so I'm not gonna call him a terrible coach for losing to a Celtics team that took us 7 games when we were deeper than Cleveland or the Magic.

It's not the fact he lost, it's HOW he lost. Despite being a coach that many praise for his defensive philosophies, his teams were CRUSHED by the opposition because he wasn't able to stop the focal point of their offensive attack. He wasn't even able to figure out how to limit either Dwight Howard or Rajon Rondo in consecutive years; both put up BETTER numbers than they had all year long. That's not supposed to happen under a coach who is supposedly defensive-oriented.

Again, it just proves Brown's inability to adjust accordingly over the course of a game. We're all familiar with that after last season.

When it comes to us getting roughed up by Westbrook. There's not much you can do to defend westbrook when your center isn't a good defender of the PnR. Westbrook tears up every PG in the NBA, Yes Bynum had a fantastic year but his PnR defense wasn't particularly good and actually it had been better years prior than his 'breakout' one. I'll answer more of this later as I have to head home now. so I'll be back in a bit.


We didn't need to shut him down, no one will shut down an elite guard in the NBA. They will get theirs one way or another. But at least make him work for a good look. We simply let him waltz right in to the 12-15 foot area of the paint and pull-up jumpers at will. No adjustments whatsoever. We were consistently burned by the same exact high P&R option every time down the court for multiple games. That is inexcusable.

#69 Drazard

Drazard

    The Death Bringer

  • 1,704 posts
  • Joined: Feb 08, 2012
  • Location:Philippines
  • Name:Drazard
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 12, 2012 - 06:42 PM

its too much for him

Nash knows what to do but kobe and dwight

33bkfif.jpg


#70 West Coast

West Coast

    LakerNation Staff

  • 20,924 posts
  • Joined: Jul 31, 2008
  • Location:California
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe Bryant

Posted October 13, 2012 - 05:12 PM

@Lakers
Today’s shoot around went the normal hour as opposed to Wednesday’s 3 hour session. “All the vets were happy” -@dariusmorris4



#71 True Lakers Fan

True Lakers Fan

    Dead Discussion! You will not win, because I will not lose&#

  • 22,638 posts
  • Joined: May 12, 2009
  • Location:San Antonio but from OC Cali
  • Name:Kyler Hay
  • Fan Since:1990
  • Fav. Laker:Kobe, Nash.Young, Farmar

Posted October 16, 2012 - 05:09 AM

For everyone that is still complaining about his substitutions Patterns. Wouldn't you have been complaining last year and not THIS year. Also he had to work what he had with our awful bench last year, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt for that one. Who would we hire if he get tossed? Sam Mitchell, that dude cant put together complete sentences let along a team
Posted Image

#72 gque24

gque24

    Sixth Man

  • 3,941 posts
  • Joined: Sep 03, 2009
  • Location:Sky High
  • Fan Since:1985
  • Fav. Laker:KOBE

Posted October 16, 2012 - 05:20 AM

For everyone that is still complaining about his substitutions Patterns. Wouldn't you have been complaining last year and not THIS year. Also he had to work what he had with our awful bench last year, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt for that one. Who would we hire if he get tossed? Sam Mitchell, that dude cant put together complete sentences let along a team



ITs not about hiring another coach. B4 Brown came PJ ran all the starters into the ground & exhausted their Title window cuz they were on dead legs after 3 str8 finals appearances. Brown repeated same process & didnt give bench a chance to gain meaningful mins & didnt want to mix quality bench players with starters. above anything else Brown is a good coach who has solid schemes & good assistants. but if you not gonna play the talent on the bench & find ways to mix tempo with bench players & starters you are reaching come playoff time to expect "old dogs" to have legs to finish the journey.
Never Wrong Always Right Like Freeway Exits!!

#73    

   

  • 38,947 posts
  • Joined: Aug 26, 2010

Posted November 07, 2012 - 10:22 PM

Sorry to bump this, but it's only to reveal that the answer to this thread has now officially been revealed and thus-fore, this thread can now be closed.

yo.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users