Alright last stand let me break down in better detail my issues with this movie now that it's not 11 PM, I am VERY critical of this final installment and I'll break down precisely why
i'll give you that. I have no problem with them borrowing the elements from the No Man's Land, Knightfall and the Dark Knight returns comics in order to do one story, but let me break down what issues I actually have with the film
What I prefer in The Dark Knight over TDKR was the pacing and the portrayal of Batman.
Also, disagree with this if you like but the Batman in TDKR may be pained and all this other stuff but he didn't have to seem the least intelligent of all incarnations. You can chalk that up to being rusty but let's break down the characteristics of Batman, he is a character that is so smart that he figured out how to kill each and every member of the Justice League "just in case". One of Batman's best characteristics is his ability to think ahead and access situations from angles no one else could and no matter what Batman we're talking about even the "older" one that appeared in some comics, he was old, but he wasn't an idiot if anything his experience made him even more intelligent and less trusting.
Let's break it down thoroughly. Selena Kyle breaks into his home and steals his fingerprints to use them for whatever reason which could have a LOT of consequences for him.
What he does is track her down and take the necklace back. Does he have her arrested? No. He loses his fortune on top of the fact that she stole his fingerprints and despite all that he still goes to her and trusts her. To the point of being lead into a trap as Batman in the first encounter with Bane. I'm sorry but Batman is MUCH too intelligent to fall for something like that without a backup plan.
I understand what Nolan was doing for storytelling purposes but it is an extreme pet peeve of mine when you have to have a character do something out of character so that you can continue the story along.
Batman having Selina Kyle steal his fingerprints and go broke because of it among other things wouldn't then go to Selina Kyle and trust her to lead him to Bane and it NOT be a trap and being completely unprepared.
But nope, it's a trap, he has no plan B, he gets nearly paralyzed, he gets thrown into that hell of a place and barely escapes after much turmoil...
Yet the first thing he does when he gets out is he goes and asks for Selina Kyle's help again.
Despite the fact she's the reason he went broke. Despite the fact she double crossed him and caused him to get his back broken. he STILL trusted her...
BATMAN would never do that!
One of Batman's strengths and one of his greatest faults is his paranoia and his inability to truly trust someone. In fact that's why he trained a child Robin and people at a young age, because they are very easy to manipulate and mold into the image he wants them to be in, he also did this with Cassandra Cain whom was molded to be an assassin from childhood, but when Batman got a hold of her he molded her too in the way one would mold a child. That's how paranoid the guy is.
But in this movie he is double crossed twice and still trusts the girl, not to mention sleeping with *spoilers* Talia, despite the fact he barely even knew her and there was nothing to imply a romantic spark till that very moment.
Those things like that are part of the reason I don't like this movie. They dumbed down Batman's character and his intelligence in order to tell the story they wanted to tell, and I didn't like it. Batman doesn't have to be dumbed down where he falls for the basic okey doke, that doesn't come down to rustiness in my opinion and is my major gripe with this film.
I'm not going to make fun of the Batman voice or the fact he uses it to talk to himself when Selina Kyle disappears or things like Bane taking Batman to the other side of the world to taunt him in a prison only to fly back to Gotham to set his plan in motion, or how the heck Bruce actually got back to Gothan when it's supposed to be locked down from halfway across the world...
that kind of stuff is in all kinds of movies so it's pointless to complain about small things like that
Alright two things, in a movie about the Joker you expect those kinds of talks every moment because Joker is the kind of villain that makes you question these things and he's the kind of villain known for getting inside of your head as well as making people see two sides of the coin so to speak.
So those kind of talks and mental grasps in a movie about the Joker makes a LOT of sense.
In a movie about Bane...not so much. Needless to say those "talks" and questionings of morality to me are more fit in a movie about the Joker than a movie about Bane. But to each their own.
I did listen and I'll give you that.
AND THIS IS MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS FILM.
Both Batman and Bruce Wayne are "dead" because of that blast although through different circumstances to the media so they don't put 2 and 2 together.
If Bruce Wayne had faked his own death, he would not.. I repeat WOULD NOT, be in broad daylight in a diner as Bruce Wayne with Selina Kyle where everyone and their mother can see him.
He's the most famous person in the world, his death is something that would be broadcast around the world and millions would know about it.
Yet as smart and as paranoid as Bruce Wayne is... he would just stroll out to a diner where EVERYBODY can recognize him?? and NOBODY notices?
Again, I understand why Nolan did this, he wanted to give that kind of an ending and he wanted to give some closure to the whole situation with Alfred and ultimately give Alfred what he wanted.
But I was shaking my head when I saw that scene... it was there to try to give a cap off to the movie but all it did was leave me saying "that...was stupid..."
The worlds most famous celebrity Bruce Wayne, whom faked his own death is now out in public for the world to see....
And this doesn't register as a problem with you?
Again it's outside of the Batman character and outside of something Bruce Wayne would actually do. If Bruce Wayne faked his own death and the news spread around the world, the LAST thing he'd do is be in a diner in broad daylight AS Bruce Wayne who the world just heard died....
Again, it's not in Bruce's character. But Nolan made it so that he could end the movie that way. And again, it's an extreme pet peeve of mine when something is written out of character in order to tell or end a story a certain way. Especially when they do something idiotic like that when they are worldly renowned as probably the most intelligent, calculating and paranoid superhero in comic book history.
So you and I will just have to agree to disagree. The Batman in the Dark Knight Rises didn't seem like Batman through 70% of the movie with some of the decisions he made ESPECIALLY the decision which was the climax of the movie and the big "triumphant" moment, it just ruined it for me because I thought logically.
So you and I will have to agree to disagree here.
first of all, selina kyle is supposed to be as cunning as batman is. Second of all Selina Kyle no longer had the prints, what would arresting her do? he had no idea what she was going to do with them. by the time he figured out, when he got the pad from Bane's henchman the deed was done and Lucious Fox said they can prove it was fraud but it would take weeks.
Batman doesn't completely fall into a trap with bane. he was there to fight bane. that was the whole point of that trip. he literally says "take me to bane" the issue he had was that she betrayed him and locked the door. it was a trap, but not a trap in the sense that he was led to bane.
he went down into the tunnels with every intention of fighting bane. he didn't go down there to reason with him. it was just the betrayal that pissed him off, he was not forced to fight bane. it was a trap in the sense that batman didn't know the door would lock behind him, but his intention going down there was to fight bane.
also remember he had what selina wanted. throughout the movie bruce makes this comparison with himself and selina. it's what attracts him to her. he sees good in her. he says it several times. " there is more to you than that". he believes she's good and she's just trying to live a free life. He can relate to that desire for a fresh start. that's where the trust comes from. she's an inspiration for him. she brings him out of hiding, she shows him that he's not the only one stuck in his life, and because of that finds himself relating to selina kyle.
this batman is not paranoid. he trusts ras al ghul enough to find a flower and climb a mountain, and leave him alive, he trusts gordon enough to let him in on the batman plan, he trusts rachel, he trusts harvey dent, he trusts lucious fox, he trusts john blake
4 out of those people he trusts almost instantly. he sees the good in people. it's what separated him from ras al ghul. both men suffered tragedy, both men wanted justice for criminals, however one saw people as inherently bad and the other saw good. he says it in begins, and restates it in TDK during his last fight with the joker where he essentially tells him that he is alone and gotham is not ugly. he tells it to ras al ghul when he says gotham is not beyond saving
so in fact his treatment of selina kyle is very in character. batman sees the good in people. it's his gift. he turns out to be right about selina kyle does he not. all because he trusted her, because he believed in her
batman's intelligence is not dumbed down. talia was involved with bruce throughout the 8 years in between TDK and TDKR. though they didn't formerly meet often they interacted through business and she was beautiful and as far as bruce was concerned was in the same boat as him trying to improve the world with the eco project that she helped fund. so it wasn't just out of the blue. she earned his trust by funding the project and then saving the project from daggett when he was about to lose it to him and as far as he knew bane
they don't know how bruce died. a lot of people died by being exiled. remember they were killing the rich. the only people that knew bruce was back were selina, lucious, talia
several people. the people of gotham have no way of knowing that bruce survived throughout the bane occupation.
also terrific handled bruce in broad daylight. he's right bruce was able to ghost his way throughout the east and disappear in begins. nobody is paying attention at lunch, noone is looking for a dead man. eating lunch, sitting at a table in a foreign country is not out there.
also the how he got back into gotham thing is beaten to death. he literally does the exact same thing in begins, he throws away his wallet and with no money travels accross the world, living on stolen food. sneaking into a city wouldn't be difficult. a city is large and bane didn't have an army surrounding the whole city. he had people guarding the main entrances and they covered the tunnels. bruce has traveled across the world without money before
there is no morality talk in TDKR. the speeches were centered around belief. one of the main themes in batman and the other speeches were centered around pain. the Bane speeches were hope and how hope can increase pain both of the major themes in the movie. no morality talks.
the two alfred speeches were about bruce separating himself from batman and living a happy life. Bane's speech was about telling bruce his plan and poisoning gothams souls with hope. the doctors speech was about placing that belief back into bruce.
the speeches were important to the growth of the characters.