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Man Of Steel (2013)


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#221 LakeShow805

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 09:03 AM

Wow that was one of the most insightful thing I have read on this website!! Hats off to you sir

agreed



#222 epicwolf

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 10:28 AM

Watch it last night. It was a pretty good movie.  Obviously10 times better than the debacle of the last superman movie Superman Returns.  I like Henry Cavill as superman. He seems to have that rugget mean loner look when he have a beard and it does show a little bit of a Wolverine side which is a good change to a boy scout superman.  Amy Adams is beautufil but for some reason she doesn't fit that role. Not much chemistry between Louis Lane and Superman for some reason.  Kevin Costner was great and so was Russel Crowe.  Micheal Shannon as the villian was ok but it doesn't really makes you hate general Zod like other villians.  Over all it was a pretty good movie. Not the best super hero movie of all time. Probably not as good as the Dark Knight with Heath Ledger but I think it is as good as the dark knight rising.  For the people who hate this movie it is so obvious. They are batman fans. Even if Superman have the greatest movies of all time, those idiot batman fans will not accept it. Looking forward to the sequal if there is one.


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Posted June 16, 2013 - 11:05 AM

Amy Adams is beautufil but for some reason she doesn't fit that role. Not much chemistry between Louis Lane and Superman for some reason.

Perhaps because Superman's Wife Gina Carano was watching closely on set:

 

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#224 last stand 2.0

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 12:32 PM

Gina is hot, but I'm not a fan of the idea of a women who could literally kill me with her bare hands while fighting 5 ninjas who broke into the house simultaneously
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#225 Mr Terrific

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 12:34 PM

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#226 Mr Terrific

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 12:38 PM

Watch it last night. It was a pretty good movie.  Obviously10 times better than the debacle of the last superman movie Superman Returns.  I like Henry Cavill as superman. He seems to have that rugget mean loner look when he have a beard and it does show a little bit of a Wolverine side which is a good change to a boy scout superman.  Amy Adams is beautufil but for some reason she doesn't fit that role. Not much chemistry between Louis Lane and Superman for some reason.  Kevin Costner was great and so was Russel Crowe.  Micheal Shannon as the villian was ok but it doesn't really makes you hate general Zod like other villians.  Over all it was a pretty good movie. Not the best super hero movie of all time. Probably not as good as the Dark Knight with Heath Ledger but I think it is as good as the dark knight rising.  For the people who hate this movie it is so obvious. They are batman fans. Even if Superman have the greatest movies of all time, those idiot batman fans will not accept it. Looking forward to the sequal if there is one.

No beef with Superman/Batman fans. The beef is with DC/Marvel fans. Supes&Bats are buddies...

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#227 Majesty

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 01:18 PM

Alright last stand let me break down in better detail my issues with this movie now that it's not 11 PM, I am VERY critical of this final installment and I'll break down precisely why

 

Your interpretation of the events in TDKR are wrong.

First of all he didn't convince any city. Bane trapped the cops under ground and freed all of the criminals. The only people in banes army were criminals and the original mercenaries

People were just afraid to go outside. There was no convincing by letter. The reading of the letter was simply to undo what Harvey dents false death enacted. Both symbolically and literally. It was only meant to falsify hope to the people of Gotham that they will be left alone if they mind their business

 


i'll give you that.  I have no problem with them borrowing the elements from the No Man's Land, Knightfall and the Dark Knight returns comics in order to do one story, but let me break down what issues I actually have with the film


What I prefer in The Dark Knight over TDKR was the pacing and the portrayal of Batman.

Also, disagree with this if you like but the Batman in TDKR may be pained and all this other stuff but he didn't have to seem the least intelligent of all incarnations.  You can chalk that up to being rusty but let's break down the characteristics of Batman, he is a character that is so smart that he figured out how to kill each and every member of the Justice League "just in case".   One of Batman's best characteristics is his ability to think ahead and access situations from angles no one else could and no matter what Batman we're talking about even the "older" one that appeared in some comics, he was old, but he wasn't an idiot if anything his experience made him even more intelligent and less trusting.

Let's break it down thoroughly.     Selena Kyle breaks into his home and steals his fingerprints to use them for whatever reason which could have a LOT of consequences for him. 

What he does is track her down and take the necklace back.   Does he have her arrested? No.    He loses his fortune on top of the fact that she stole his fingerprints and despite all that he still goes to her and trusts her.   To the point of being lead into a trap as Batman in the first encounter with Bane.    I'm sorry but Batman is MUCH too intelligent to fall for something like that without a backup plan.

I understand what Nolan was doing for storytelling purposes but it is an extreme pet peeve of mine when you have to have a character do something out of character so that you can continue the story along. 

Batman having Selina Kyle steal his fingerprints and go broke because of it among other things wouldn't then go to Selina Kyle and trust her to lead him to Bane and it NOT be a trap and being completely unprepared.  

But nope, it's a trap, he has no plan B, he gets nearly paralyzed, he gets thrown into that hell of a place and barely escapes after much turmoil...

Yet the first thing he does when he gets out is he goes and asks for Selina Kyle's help again. 

Despite the fact she's the reason he went broke.  Despite the fact she double crossed him and caused him to get his back broken.  he STILL trusted her... 

BATMAN would never do that!

One of Batman's strengths and one of his greatest faults is his paranoia and his inability to truly trust someone.   In fact that's why he trained a child Robin and people at a young age, because they are very easy to manipulate and mold into the image he wants them to be in, he also did this with Cassandra Cain whom was molded to be an assassin from childhood, but when Batman got a hold of her he molded her too in the way one would mold a child.   That's how paranoid the guy is.

But in this movie he is double crossed twice and still trusts the girl, not to mention sleeping with *spoilers*  Talia, despite the fact he barely even knew her and there was nothing to imply a romantic spark till that very moment.

Those things like that are part of the reason I don't like this movie.   They dumbed down Batman's character and his intelligence in order to tell the story they wanted to tell, and I didn't like it.    Batman doesn't have to be dumbed down where he falls for the basic okey doke, that doesn't come down to rustiness in my opinion and is my major gripe with this film.  


I'm not going to make fun of the Batman voice or the fact he uses it to talk to himself when Selina Kyle disappears or things like Bane taking Batman to the other side of the world to taunt him in a prison only to fly back to Gotham to set his plan in motion, or how the heck Bruce actually got back to Gothan when it's supposed to be locked down from halfway across the world...

that kind of stuff is in all kinds of movies so it's pointless to complain about small things like that :)

 

To say Nolan is at his preachy best is ridiculous. First of all TDK had as many speeches as TDKR. Second of all Nolan is not preachy, you feel it's preachy because it's high brow stuff. It's a movie that requires thought.

 

 



Alright two things, in a movie about the Joker you expect those kinds of talks every moment because Joker is the kind of villain that makes you question these things and he's the kind of villain known for getting inside of your head as well as making people see two sides of the coin so to speak.  

So those kind of talks and mental grasps in a movie about the Joker makes a LOT of sense.

In a movie about Bane...not so much.   Needless to say those "talks" and questionings of morality to me are more fit in a movie about the Joker than a movie about Bane.  But to each their own.
 

 

TDKR is about pain and suffering, it's the reinforcement that batman isn't a man but a symbol, it's Gothams last stand, it's Bruce realizing that he doesn't have to die and be a tragic hero. He doesnt have to go down. That was the point of the ending. It wasn't to surprise you. If you had actually followed the arc Bruce believed he and batman were one in the same. He wanted to inspire but was unwilling to relinquish the mask. The only time he saw Bruce as a separate being was with the prospect of Rachel and when she died he lost his will to be Bruce

So without batman he went into a reclusive state because to him life didn't exist outside of Rachel and batman.

Once batman came back he was able to live in the world. TDKR was the perfect 3rd film because it's not about Gotham, the films are about Bruce. They always have been.

Batman begins Is about fear, Bruce overcoming his fears, his regrets and guilt

The dark knight is about chaos and how it shows Bruce that batman isn't enough, that batman has limits

The dark knight rises is about pain and how Bruce is able to overcome his need for batman and live his life. He's Finally able to accept his own idea that batman is a symbol

He states consistently throughout the dark knight and throughout rises that his original intent was to be a symbol but somewhere that idea was lost and they became the same person culminating in Rachels letter where she says "she doesn't know if the day will ever come when you no longer need batman"

She doesn't say Gotham. Nolan puts it right there in the writing you just have to listen.

 

 

 


I did listen and I'll give you that.

 

 


TDKR was a fantastic end to bruces arc. Through the death of Bruce he is free just like Selina Kyle, through his death batman becomes the symbol Gotham has always needed shown through the unveiling of the statue and John blake being risen
 



AND THIS IS MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS FILM.


Both Batman and Bruce Wayne are "dead" because of that blast although through different circumstances to the media so they don't put 2 and 2 together.


If Bruce Wayne had faked his own death, he would not.. I repeat WOULD NOT, be in broad daylight in a diner as Bruce Wayne with Selina Kyle where everyone and their mother can see him.

He's the most famous person in the world, his death is something that would be broadcast around the world and millions would know about it.   

Yet as smart and as paranoid as Bruce Wayne is... he would just stroll out to a diner where EVERYBODY can recognize him?? and NOBODY notices?  

Again, I understand why Nolan did this, he wanted to give that kind of an ending and he wanted to give some closure to the whole situation with Alfred and ultimately give Alfred what he wanted.


But I was shaking my head when I saw that scene... it was there to try to give a cap off to the movie but all it did was leave me saying "that...was stupid..." 

The worlds most famous celebrity Bruce Wayne, whom faked his own death is now out in public for the world to see....

And this doesn't register as a problem with you? 

Again it's outside of the Batman character and outside of something Bruce Wayne would actually do.  If Bruce Wayne faked his own death and the news spread around the world, the LAST thing he'd do is be in a diner in broad daylight AS Bruce Wayne who the world just heard died....


Again, it's not in Bruce's character.  But Nolan made it so that he could end the movie that way.  And again, it's an extreme pet peeve of mine when something is written out of character in order to tell or end a story a certain way.  Especially when they do something idiotic like that when they are worldly renowned as probably the most intelligent, calculating and paranoid superhero in comic book history.

So you and I will just have to agree to disagree.   The Batman in the Dark Knight Rises didn't seem like Batman through 70% of the movie with some of the decisions he made ESPECIALLY the decision which was the climax of the movie and the big "triumphant" moment, it just ruined it for me because I thought logically. 


So you and I will have to agree to disagree here.


 


Edited by Majesty, June 16, 2013 - 01:37 PM.

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#228 Yaboy

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 03:26 PM

It was ok... wasn't as good as i expected though.


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#229 Mr Terrific

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 03:28 PM

TDKR is my favorite of the Trilogy because it ended the way it began...he disappeared. In Batman Begins he was declared legally dead and learned 'theatricality and deception' through The League Of Shadows so it was already established that he could make himself scarce despite being famous. Plus the Dark Knight never has a happy ending so that was a 1st because you know Christian Bale is not gonna do a 4th Batman movie

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#230 Majesty

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 04:18 PM

TDKR is my favorite of the Trilogy because it ended the way it began...he disappeared. In Batman Begins he was declared legally dead and learned 'theatricality and deception' through The League Of Shadows so it was already established that he could make himself scarce despite being famous. Plus the Dark Knight never has a happy ending so that was a 1st because you know Christian Bale is not gonna do a 4th Batman movie


+1

 

I respect your opinion and how you feel about the film, I get why people can really like the film, he just didn't do many things that felt like "batman" was downsized or his intelligence weakened for the sake of telling a story in my opinion.

There is a difference in being declared legally dead and leaving for years to study the criminal mind in seclusion and faking your own death that millions to billions hear about and then showing up in a populated diner days later.

I also stress to say that Bruce was a much more polarizing figure that would be noticeable by TDKR than he was in Batman Begins when he disappeared as a college student.

Again, Bruce Wayne would never do that.  He'd have done what he did in the first film and gone into seclusion for years before revealing himself again.  But by the 3rd film as a much more important and polarizing and popular figure and the most famous person in the world he fakes his own death, even leaving behind a will.....   only to show up in a populated diner days later where he's easily recognizable..just chillin?


yeah....no...  Bruce Wayne would never do that.    If we have to have a happy ending at the expense of Bruce Wayne looking like a total idiot I'd just forgo the happy ending and go with something that Batman would actually do.

But to each their own like I said. 

What the real Batman would have done if you wanted to have a happy ending, was having him be in the cave when Blake came in from the shadows telling him he has a lot to learn and training him while still remaining in seclusion.   There, he is alive, only one person(Alfred too once he got home) would know he was alive, and he'd be training Blake to be the next Batman.     And Blake has the first name of Robin so even THAT would satisfy some people to a degree.

Not showing up in public at a diner where the world can see him obviously alive.  


I know people wanted a happy ending and Bruce Wayne to be "free"

But that's the main tragedy of Bruce Wayne... he will NEVER be free and isn't meant to be, that's what makes Batman such a figure.     If we're gonna give Batman a happy and "free" ending we may as well bring Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy back from the grave in the ASM third movie


Edited by Majesty, June 16, 2013 - 04:42 PM.

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#231 JGuez

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 08:56 PM

It was ok... wasn't as good as i expected though.

 

That's how I felt. It's worth seeing but I was disappointed.

 

I guess I'm just not a huge fan of Superman though. I don't think he's that interesting of a hero. 



#232 Majesty

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 08:57 PM

That's how I felt. It's worth seeing but I was disappointed.

 

I guess I'm just not a huge fan of Superman though. I don't think he's that interesting of a hero. 


Because he can't lose and his superpowers are basically God mode. 

Even when exposed to kryptonite it takes 40 hours for him to die and usually within that amount of time he's saved =p

Supermans superpowers are like Batman's utility belt in the 60s =p


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#233 JGuez

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 09:09 PM


Because he can't lose and his superpowers are basically God mode. 

Even when exposed to kryptonite it takes 40 hours for him to die and usually within that amount of time he's saved =p

Supermans superpowers are like Batman's utility belt in the 60s =p

 

Yeah that's it for me pretty much. I don't really know if this is much of a spoiler but:

 

Spoiler

 

I'm sure a lot of that has been said in this thread, I just haven't gone through it at all.



#234 PhillyLaker24

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 09:23 PM

Going back to the critic reviews. They said this movie was average and nothing special, seems as if America disagreed with it having the biggest opening weekend ever in June. Yea, critics have a more refined taste and know more about movies, they know so much that no one even agrees with them.


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#235 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 09:26 PM

Wait, people are arguing The Dark Knight vs ANY MOVIE, let alone The Dark Knight Returns.

 

 

I mean, I don['t read comics or none of that, all I know is EVERYBODY i know LOVED the dark Knight and the latest one was just an OKAY film.



#236 flota

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 09:31 PM

Great superman movie
Finally we saw a big brawl and a lot of destruction :D
My only gripe is with him breaking his own moral code
I liked the tone of the film and its more "serius" nature

Those who didn't like CGI in the fights, what do they expect? Its superman, batman fight scenes lacked that because he's a human not a flying, ultra strong, laser eyes alien...
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#237 Majesty

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 09:35 PM

Wait, people are arguing The Dark Knight vs ANY MOVIE, let alone The Dark Knight Returns.

 

 

I mean, I don['t read comics or none of that, all I know is EVERYBODY i know LOVED the dark Knight and the latest one was just an OKAY film.


I preferred The Dark Knight and I first put my problems with the Dark Knight Rises at 11 pm when not thinking straight and being extremely tired after an all nighter with the gf.

 

last stand wrote me a response that I didn't understand the story etc.

So then fully awake today I posted a response of the TRUE issues I have with the Dark Knight Rises and how it was untrue to Batman's character in some scenes as well as with some of the storytelling.  That was pretty much that :)


Edited by Majesty, June 16, 2013 - 09:36 PM.

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#238 BasketballIQ

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 09:39 PM

I actually like Batman9the character) over Superman. and all the Superman movies have disappointed me thus far, but I didn't like the fight scenes in the recent Batman films.



#239 last stand 2.0

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 11:19 PM

Going back to the critic reviews. They said this movie was average and nothing special, seems as if America disagreed with it having the biggest opening weekend ever in June. Yea, critics have a more refined taste and know more about movies, they know so much that no one even agrees with them.

 

transformers 3 made a billion dollars. transformers 2 made close at 800 million

 

/argument


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#240 RobBlake

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 11:46 PM

transformers 3 made a billion dollars. transformers 2 made close at 800 million

 

/argument

well if people found it entertaining...


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