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ESPN says Pau is 11th best player in the league. Agree or Disagree?


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#1 MDI

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Posted October 14, 2011 - 02:05 PM

https://twitter.com/#!/NBAonESPN/status/124968110905237504

#NBArank 11: Pau Gasol (@paugasol). es.pn/NBArank11-15 (Rating: 8.53/10)


Ranked ahead of Melo and Amare

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7100076/nba-player-rankings-11-15

Too high? Too low? Or is that just right where he belongs...slightly out of top 10

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Props to sidthekid871


#2 Japago

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Posted October 14, 2011 - 02:18 PM

Way too high. I would take Dirk, A'mare, and Bosh over him among PFs. I know they're going to drop Kobe. So, Pau deserves to be dropped at least as much. He averaged 13 pts and 8 rebounds on 42% shooting in the post season. I don't think he's quite that bad, but I don't think he deserves to stay around the same rank he was during the 2 championships.

Based on the list, the only players better than Pau are(in alphabetical order):

Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
Lebron James
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams

Not buying it.

Edited by Japago, October 14, 2011 - 02:37 PM.

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#3 TKainZero

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Posted October 14, 2011 - 02:25 PM

WAY TOO HIGH...

Pau is great... A great 2nd player on the team...

He is NOT a top 30 player in the NBA.

People overrate Pau to attack Kobe

#4 steven v

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Posted October 14, 2011 - 03:03 PM

Way too high. I would take Dirk, A'mare, and Bosh over him among PFs. I know they're going to drop Kobe. So, Pau deserves to be dropped at least as much. He averaged 13 pts and 8 rebounds on 42% shooting in the post season. I don't think he's quite that bad, but I don't think he deserves to stay around the same rank he was during the 2 championships.

Based on the list, the only players better than Pau are(in alphabetical order):

Kobe Bryant
Kevin Durant
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
Lebron James
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams

Not buying it.


the rankings are looking at over all season. Not 10 games. In your list of top payers all you are mentioning are guys that can score. Most of them can't even play defense. Most of them don't have a top player in their team to share the ball with over an 82 game stretch and play off season.

HATE HATE HATE HATE


#5 Japago

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Posted October 14, 2011 - 04:30 PM

the rankings are looking at over all season. Not 10 games. In your list of top payers all you are mentioning are guys that can score. Most of them can't even play defense. Most of them don't have a top player in their team to share the ball with over an 82 game stretch and play off season.


That's not my list. That's their list. I wouldn't put Blake Griffin in the top 10.

Anyway, even normal Gasol shouldn't be that high IMO. I'd say he's around 15 to 20. Counting his playoff performance, top 30.

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#6 Real Deal

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Posted October 14, 2011 - 11:21 PM

If you start the NBA season right now, Blake Griffin is ahead of Gasol. I can argue for him last season, really. Neither play defense, and Griffin is more effective everywhere else. He's a more physical player (ten times more physical), he's faster, twenty times better on the break (on LBJ's level), he can rebound better despite being shorter (because he's quicker, stronger, jumps higher, and can box out anyone under the rim), and he's a better scorer.

Among PF's, Dirk and Blake already rank above Pau Gasol. I'm also sticking Kevin Love on the list. He's a better rebounder (by miles), scores the ball from 23 feet in, and passes twice as good as Gasol. If you don't consider him a PF (Darko was the center), well, he's still better than Gasol.

So, really, Pau Gasol is a top five PF. Dirk, Blake, and Love are better overall players. Amare and Aldridge are close, but they struggle grabbing boards and passing the ball, and Amare has zero defensive presence (worse than any other PF I just posted). Garnett has regressed.

The #4 power forward is not the 11th best player in the NBA.

In no order...Kobe, Dwight, James, Wade, Durant, Dirk, CP3, Rose, Griffin, Williams, Carmelo, Rondo, Love, and Nash (for running offenses by himself, best passer in the league, and being so efficient) are all above Gasol.

All things considered, I'd put Pau at #15 today.

#7 netlord

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 02:39 AM

WAY TOO HIGH...

Pau is great... A great 2nd player on the team...

He is NOT a top 30 player in the NBA.

People overrate Pau to attack Kobe



And they use Kobe's greatness to underrate Pau...
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#8 UKUGA

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 06:07 AM

He's still living off residuals from back2back titles and looking like a monster in Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals.

Dude fell off the map at the end of last season.

That is enough to justify dropping him out of the top 20.

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#9 kobynum

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 07:45 AM

A monster in Game 7? Pau was not great. Grabbed boards like Kobe but initiated no offense. Finished some but he was soft. So here's my list of players better than Pau by position.
Paul Deron Derrick Westbrook
Kobe Wade
Bron Durant Melo
Blake Dirk Zach Amare
Howard.
Those players are obviously better. There are players who are arguably more valuable.
Bogut Bynum and his brother for starters. Nash and Rondo. Horford and Bosh.
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#10 Japago

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 12:13 PM

As much as I'm down on Pau, I would not take Love or Griffin over him. Both are undersized and have difficulty against size. Gasol is a better rebounder IMO than Griffin as well.

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#11 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 12:20 PM

As much as I'm down on Pau, I would not take Love or Griffin over him. Both are undersized and have difficulty against size. Gasol is a better rebounder IMO than Griffin as well.


Pau is NOT a better rebounder than Blake Griffin. No way. In his first season, Blake Griffin averaged more rebounds that Pau ever has in his entire career. More physical in boxing out, a monster on the offensive boards, and he's just a freaking tank inside. Blake is a much better rebounder than Pau, there's really no comparison there.

Blake and Love's difficulties against size aren't anywhere near as bad as Pau's difficulties against physical defense.

#12 LakersGAFan

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 12:45 PM

Based on actual skills, fundamentals and his contributions to a teams depth and rotation core Pau should be #4.
So much that he gives that doesnt show in a box score.
Pau came to LA to play with KB and we won chips. If Pau never came KB would still have 1 less ring than Shaq.
Hate me but thats real talk. Pau was the perfect player we needed and nobody else could have fit better in PJ's stystem.

#13 Japago

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 01:14 PM

Pau is NOT a better rebounder than Blake Griffin. No way. In his first season, Blake Griffin averaged more rebounds that Pau ever has in his entire career. More physical in boxing out, a monster on the offensive boards, and he's just a freaking tank inside. Blake is a much better rebounder than Pau, there's really no comparison there.

Blake and Love's difficulties against size aren't anywhere near as bad as Pau's difficulties against physical defense.


Well, at least I've seen Pau overcome physical D, even though he didn't at the end of the year. Size is a big factor when it comes to bigs, like it or not. I just don't trust undersized bigs when it comes to playing playoff ball. Blakes' rebounding numbers are heightened by the fact that he doesn't play with any good rebounders.

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#14 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 01:29 PM

Well then what about Pau's rebounding in Memphis? Even there, he didn't put up any big rebounding numbers. In fact, his rebounding numbers on the Lakers have been better than all but one season in Memphis.

I really dislike the "not playing with good rebounders" argument. Rebounding isn't about size or who your teammates are, its about effort. Sure, there can be discrepancies here and there when it comes to teams, but they're slight and nothing too major.

The #'s that Love and Griffin put up while rebounding are due to their hustle and their rebounding know-how, not because of their teammates. I watched parts of a lot of Minnesota games over the last two years because I had Love on my fantasy team, and he is a straight monster when it comes to rebounding. He's got a sixth sense for rebounding that you don't see too often. Not to mention the fact that he's unbelievable in getting position for the rebound. Griffin is much the same, though he uses his raw physical power and athleticism more-so than Love does with his basketball IQ.

All things considered, rebounding comes down to hustle and effort. If you don't go all out for a rebound, you're not going to be grabbing too many of them. That's why a guy like Dennis Rodman is considered to be the greatest rebounder of all time.

#15 Japago

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 01:46 PM

I'll just say this, It's tough to grade Pau because we say two very different Paus this season. Pau can be very dominant on the boards like he was in the 2010 finals, when he averaged 12 a game. I saw that guy at times this season. In his peak, I trust Pau to get any given 50/50 rebound more because of his size.

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#16 LaDy_V

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 02:52 PM

ESPN = FAIL!!!!!! Sorry but WAYYY TOO HIGH, Pau is a mess...it's like they didn't even attempt to watch the Lakers in the playoffs b/c they was so far up Lebron and Miami butts!!!
Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Drose, Cp3, Durant, Dirk (i'm sure pau would agree with this one after being constantly owned by him), Wade, Amare, Blake Griffin, Dwight Howard, Russell Westbrook, and Deron Williams are all better than him to name a few........heck if we could trade him for his brother Marc and a decent point guard I would be happy!!!!

#17 TKainZero

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Posted October 15, 2011 - 03:34 PM

And they use Kobe's greatness to underrate Pau...


Fair enough...
Pau did carry Memphis to Zero wins in the playoffs, but he did get there...
And only 16/30 teams make the playoffs a year...

#18 kobynum

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Posted October 16, 2011 - 07:37 AM

Pau at his best created 10 - 14 points for himself as a Laker. That's rare. Pau has moves on the block but he gets pushed off his spot a lot. So as a scoring threat he is no more of a threat than the AVERAGE PF. He made a lot of points and free throws on open or assisted shots. Created by 24. Pau's rebounding is good on the offensive side and average defensively. He is a good shot creator but too passive. He passes to shooters to a point where it hurts the offense especially in big games. If Pau wasn't 7 feet tall he would be really get exposed. He isn't what he was potrayed.
Zach and Dirk finished in the playoffs against very good teams. Carried teams.

If you look back to all the Shaq games... LeBron games... And our biggest Road reg. Season games Gasol never LED us.... Never. Playoff moments since he arrived. A tip in and a big shot in Game 7 vs Boston. By contrast the maligned Fisher has Game 3 Boston. Game 4 Orlando. Other clutch shots forgotten amongst those moments. Defensively also. Kobe has the bad back games in Utah. Denver shots. Taking down Dwight. Setting up countless huge shots. Neutralizing Westbrook and Paul. This is in the past four playoff runs.
Artest has bigger moments. Ariza had the Denver and Orlando series' big shots.
Pau earned it but he rarely MAXIMIZED his talent in big games
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#19 Clutch

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Posted October 16, 2011 - 07:50 AM

z-bo owns all pf's :rock:
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#20 UKUGA

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Posted October 17, 2011 - 04:03 PM

A monster in Game 7? Pau was not great. Grabbed boards like Kobe but initiated no offense. Finished some but he was soft. So here's my list of players better than Pau by position.
Paul Deron Derrick Westbrook
Kobe Wade
Bron Durant Melo
Blake Dirk Zach Amare
Howard.
Those players are obviously better. There are players who are arguably more valuable.
Bogut Bynum and his brother for starters. Nash and Rondo. Horford and Bosh.


Game 7 was ugly. Pau was great. No need to down play him. Guy was a beast in the 4Q. Without him, we lose.

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