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Kobe Debate: Clutch Stats


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#1 LO7

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Posted July 11, 2011 - 11:25 PM

http://espn.go.com/b...istics-a-debate


I think just looking at a shooting percentage at the end of games is stupid, but these two bloggers debate whether Kobe is an all-time great or just an average crunch time performer...

What do you all think?
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#2 DanishLakerFan

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Posted July 11, 2011 - 11:46 PM

The Awfull Henry Abbot is a clown, who always disses Kobe. Every time Kobe makes a great shot, he writes in his blog about how un-clutch Kobe is, and everytime he misses an important shot he does the same.

Henry Abbott is a sports-writer, and sports-writers are not exactly known for their IQ, not to mention their statistical or mathematical skills. Most of what these guys do, and this includes Bruce Blitz, John Hollinger etc, is try to sound like they know a lot, which they dont.

For instance, check this LBJ-Kobe comparison. Blitz thinks this is statistics, but its not, its pathetic one-sided garbage from a retarded mind. http://hoopsapedia.w...antvslebron.htm

Truth is, Kobe has missed a lot of shots in the time that "stat-geeks" say is Clutch-time, but he's also made a lot.

However, you often see Kobe in the middle of the third when his team is down making a small run with consequtive baskets. That is clutch. Also, Kobe wouldn't choke in the final game in the nba finals like LBJ and Wade did. Never.

A recent poll asked all the NBA players who they would want to take the last shot. 74% said Kobe, 8% Durant, Wade 3%, Allen/Dirk 2%, Lebron 0%. If that is not proof of being clutch, I don't know what is.

#3 West Coast

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Posted July 12, 2011 - 06:27 AM

When it comes down to it, Kobe is still the most feared player when the game is on the line.

What separates him from other players is that he simply not afraid to take responsibility for losing a game and wants that last shot every time.

If those stats told the whole story, then opposing coaches would not double team Kobe at the end of games, wishing that he passes the ball to someone else.

I think its funny that even in a year where the Lakers got swept and Lebron James failed miserably, legit Kobe haters are still pulling anything they possibly can in hopes that people will agree that Kobe is not great.

#4 Mr.know.it.all

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Posted July 12, 2011 - 08:31 AM

When it comes down to it, Kobe is still the most feared player when the game is on the line.

What separates him from other players is that he simply not afraid to take responsibility for losing a game and wants that last shot every time.

If those stats told the whole story, then opposing coaches would not double team Kobe at the end of games, wishing that he passes the ball to someone else.

I think its funny that even in a year where the Lakers got swept and Lebron James failed miserably, legit Kobe haters are still pulling anything they possibly can in hopes that people will agree that Kobe is not great.

I dont understand why these writers hate Kobe so much, I have never seen any other NBA star of Kobe statue get critic like he does. No one ever talked about how MJ only shot in the mid 20 range for 3 pointers until the NBA moved the3 point line in closer. It seems like these writers are afraid that Kobe might pass Jordan one day in status

#5 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted July 12, 2011 - 12:08 PM

Henry Abbott

/thread

#6 T-Time

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Posted July 12, 2011 - 01:51 PM

When it comes down to it, Kobe is still the most feared player when the game is on the line.

What separates him from other players is that he simply not afraid to take responsibility for losing a game and wants that last shot every time.


You nailed it with these two statements.

#7 steven v

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Posted July 12, 2011 - 04:54 PM

The NBA considers an uncontested dunk and a layup as the same thing as a 25 foot jump shot.

Understand that and one can then understand how valuable that FG% stat is.
The Lakers FO knows more than you. Sorry.

#8 Azazello

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Posted July 13, 2011 - 12:51 PM

Go and watch the video you sent me of Bryant, for instance, making those big 3s against Ruben Patterson in 2004. When he plants his feet to take that first one, his heels are pointed at the hoop. He's well behind the 3-point line, well-covered and facing the wrong damned way. It's as tough a shot as there is in basketball -- and almost certain to miss. Most coaches would rightly bench most players for even taking it.

It has what, a 5 percent chance of going in? For Bryant, bless him, it might have a 20 percent chance, which is a testament to his amazing and heroic skill.

But it's still a miserable shot attempt. So miserable that it's within the realm of possibility that wide-open Slava Medvedenko over there, a career 2-of-13 3-point shooter, actually may have been a better option.

And no, the fact that this one happened to go in doesn't prove jack. He has taken a zillion of those, and missed the vast majority.


If we're talking about a guy who decides to take that shot, we're talking about a guy who is not getting his team the best shot it can possibly get. He's hanging his team's chances on a roll of the dice, taking a shot no coach would want at any other time of the game -- even in a league in which plenty of teams are able to find clean crunch time looks.

Some nights, like that one, he'll end up looking like a hero throwing up those hopers. Other nights, he'll be the goat.

The key question in assessing a player like Bryant becomes: How many "other" nights are there?

Answer: A lot.


The best point Abbott makes in his column. Kobe isn't going to change. He isn't going to facilitate with two minutes left in the 4th quarter. Defenders have to know Kobe is going to shoot. In a game winner situation, Kobe is more likely to shoot than pass. That's who Kobe is. That will never change. Call it refuse to lose, proud, supreme confidence if you love him. Call it selfish, ball hogging and chucking if you hate him.

Abbott is asking for rationality. Abbott uses statistics to show his reasoning that Kobe isn't the undisputed king of clutch. He can't take away Kobe's championships, nor does he attempt to, like BruceBlitz does. Abbott states In my head, the data say exactly what my eyes, and his coaches, say: that Bryant shoots more than anyone, and makes shots at an average rate.

You can't say with certainty Kobe is the most feared crunch time player in the game anymore. Not after the performance Dirk had in the playoffs. I would be equally afraid of both. And everyone that makes excuses for Kobe's play. Stop it. Kobe doesn't make excuses for his play. He doesn't make excuses for losing. Why would any of his fans make an excuse for him. Kobe has always been a no bull[expletive] guy when it comes to winning and losing.

The only problem I have with Abbott is his bias that favors Lebron. If Abbott has a problem with Kobe getting undue praise for how he performs in the clutch, then why does he hype Lebron as the next MJ? Why does he entertain the idea of Lebron becoming that great when Lebron is 0-2 in the Finals? Did MJ ever do that?

Edited by Mr. Me 2, July 13, 2011 - 12:52 PM.





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