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MJ-comparisons


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#1 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 02:08 AM

Why is it that everybody who watched basketball in the MJ-era always tend to act insulted when people compare players to MJ?

Often they say stuff like: "things were different back then" or "people have forgotten how great he was".

Why is it that people like Bill "11 rings" Russell, Wilt "50 ppg, 100 pts, 23 rpg-career" Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-"6 titles, 6MVPs, 38Kpoints"-Jabbar all take a back-seat to MJ in the GOAT-discussions? Why is it that these guys are forgotten?

Even current players are not allowed to be compared to MJ.
Take LBJ:
Pippen said: "LBJ can be better than MJ" and everybody is acting like he just raped the Olson twins. At 26 LBJ has two MVPs, and have taken two teams to the Finals twice. At 26, MJ had 1 MVP and hadn't even gotten out of the conference finals yet. LBJ and the Heat could win four in a row, god forbid, and with his current pace, LBJ could potentially get multiple MVPs, titles etc.

Take Kobe comparisons
In the MJ-comparisons, Kobe is too inefficient, and only have 5 titles. Well, Kobe will obviously never best MJ in efficiency, but he may in amout of titles, which is the standard way of comparing all-time greats (unless of course if your name is MJ, then 6 is enough and Russells 11 is ignored). The case for Kobe is that while his season averages is a bit lower than MJs, his skill-set, versatility is second to none, and ceiling is almost Wilt-like (81, 2x60+ games in 3 quarters, even MJ couldn't do that). Also, Kobe could potentially beat Kareems 38K, get 7+ titles and have an overall better career than MJ. Will it happen, probably not, but saying Kobe is nowhere near what MJ was is pathetic.
Another thing: Kobes performance in last years finals, people called it un-MJ-like. Once again people forget: Final game in 1996 Finals against Seattle, MJ was 5-19.

It seems the MJ-lovers always picks the part of MJs game that fits the currrent discussion, and never questions the greatness of MJ.

Kobe and LBJ will probably never best MJ in the GOAT discussions, but they might, and they should at least be in the discussion. But why do the Wilts, Russells and Kareems take a back-seat to MJ in these discussions, when depending how you look at it easily were better than MJ?

#2 Guest_MyJohnsonisMagic_*

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 07:51 AM

MJ was overrated, now its LeBron but to an extreme because Jordan was leaps and bounds better than him and then Scottie Pippen says the unthinkable which only confirms what I said.

#3 West Coast

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 08:25 AM

How was Michael Jordan overrated?

#4 Guest_MyJohnsonisMagic_*

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 10:12 AM

How was Michael Jordan overrated?


Isn't he called the greatest player of all time?

You are telling me that doesn't point to him being overrated?

#5 West Coast

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 10:14 AM

Isn't he called the greatest player of all time?

You are telling me that doesn't point to him being overrated?


I believe he is the greatest player of my time, as do many other people.

Has nothing to do with him being overrated, his body of work allows him to be in that conversation.

#6 Guest_MyJohnsonisMagic_*

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 10:55 AM

I believe he is the greatest player of my time, as do many other people.

Has nothing to do with him being overrated, his body of work allows him to be in that conversation.


You aren't one of the people overrating him though, as you dont seem to agree hes the greatest of all time.

I'm talking about the people that call him "The G.O.A.T." (the majority) not the people that would throw him into the convo.

Jordan is one of the greats, greatest of all time? No, could you make a case for him? Yes, but officially there is no 'G.O.A.T.'
and if there was his name would most likely be Jerry West (even though I personally believe its Kareem) because
the guy is the NBA logo.

#7 West Coast

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 11:14 AM

You aren't one of the people overrating him though, as you dont seem to agree hes the greatest of all time.

I'm talking about the people that call him "The G.O.A.T." (the majority) not the people that would throw him into the convo.

Jordan is one of the greats, greatest of all time? No, could you make a case for him? Yes, but officially there is no 'G.O.A.T.'
and if there was his name would most likely be Jerry West (even though I personally believe its Kareem) because
the guy is the NBA logo.


The 'G.O.A.T' is opinion based. It's a safe bet that Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time in the eyes of people around the world.

Different generations will have a different G.O.A.T, but the fact is that people can only compare careers and form opinions off that. We won't see Bill Russell vs Shaq, Shaq v Kareem, Jordan (prime) vs Kobe, Jordan vs Lebron, and so on and so forth. In another 10-15 years, there will be some new superstar and that generation will be saying "x player is better than Lebron or Durant".

It's a discussion that will forever go on.

#8 Guest_MyJohnsonisMagic_*

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 12:00 PM

The 'G.O.A.T' is opinion based. It's a safe bet that Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time in the eyes of people around the world.

Different generations will have a different G.O.A.T, but the fact is that people can only compare careers and form opinions off that. We won't see Bill Russell vs Shaq, Shaq v Kareem, Jordan (prime) vs Kobe, Jordan vs Lebron, and so on and so forth. In another 10-15 years, there will be some new superstar and that generation will be saying "x player is better than Lebron or Durant".

It's a discussion that will forever go on.


Then again most of the cats on here are young and haven't seen the NBA or college ball outside of the 90's.

#9 West Coast

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 01:21 PM

Then again most of the cats on here are young and haven't seen the NBA or college ball outside of the 90's.


More than likely yes.

Let's face it, more times than not, the older Lakers fans are not going to be blogging or be on a message board.

#10 kobynum

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Posted June 09, 2011 - 04:16 PM

Whenever people act like MJ was in a league of his own that's insulting. He leads the pack but many alpha wolves. His career is more the standard.
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#11 Return of Legend

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Posted June 10, 2011 - 08:24 PM

MJ is the goat, sorry. a few other players are in the conversation, but unfortunately kobe is not
hai

#12 Guest_MyJohnsonisMagic_*

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Posted June 10, 2011 - 09:34 PM

MJ is the goat, sorry. a few other players are in the conversation, but unfortunately kobe is not


You've just lost all credability.

#13 West Coast

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 06:36 AM

MJ is the goat, sorry. a few other players are in the conversation, but unfortunately kobe is not


If Kobe is the closest thing that the league has had since Jordan, how can he not be even in the conversation? Just want to get your thoughts on that.

#14 DanishLakerFan

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 07:59 AM

MJ is the goat, sorry. a few other players are in the conversation, but unfortunately kobe is not


First of all, Basketball is basically about winning, not stats and MVPs. In any GOAT-discussion, the amount of rings is the measuring standard. That is why guys like Barkley and Malone is always being mentioned as inferior to the greatest PF ever: Tim Duncan. He has rings, they don't. That's how it works. I don't make the rules, i just follow them.

Bill Russell is the greatest winner of all time! How can you argue with 11 rings in 13 seasons?

Second of all. If Kobe were to stop playing now he would be remembered as a top 10 player in league history, and not the GOAT. However, last time i checked, Kobe didn't retire this summer and he could potentially play for yet a long time, and with a bit of luck he could not only get 6-7 or even 8 rings, he could also be the nba's all-time leading scorer, lead in minutes played and in games played. Then we can start to talk about Kobe being the GOAT.

I my mind what we should do instead of rankings, we should talk TIERS, because players have played in different eras, with different rules, and as there is some luck involved, you really cant compare all that easy.

TIER 1. Russell, MJ, Kareem, Wilt
TIER 2. Big-O, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, West, Olajuwon etc.
TIER 3. Barkley, Lebron, Iverson, Baylor, Stockton, Malone etc.

#15 androsays

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 10:07 AM

i'm not trying to take anything away from the bill russell lead celtics, 11 championships is definitely an incredible feat. but keep in mind half of those were won when the league only had 9 teams, the other half was when they expanded to 14.

jordan won in an era of not only increased competition, but a 29 team league. kobe in a league of 30 teams.

edit*

i like your tiers, i would put magic, bird, and shaq (and move wilt down) in tier 1b to MJ, Russel and Kareems 1a. kobe and duncan should for now stay in 2 until their careers are over.

Edited by androsays, June 11, 2011 - 10:10 AM.


2div

#16 pointguard11

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 11:35 AM

Why is it that everybody who watched basketball in the MJ-era always tend to act insulted when people compare players to MJ?

Often they say stuff like: "things were different back then" or "people have forgotten how great he was".

Why is it that people like Bill "11 rings" Russell, Wilt "50 ppg, 100 pts, 23 rpg-career" Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-"6 titles, 6MVPs, 38Kpoints"-Jabbar all take a back-seat to MJ in the GOAT-discussions? Why is it that these guys are forgotten?

Even current players are not allowed to be compared to MJ.
Take LBJ:
Pippen said: "LBJ can be better than MJ" and everybody is acting like he just raped the Olson twins. At 26 LBJ has two MVPs, and have taken two teams to the Finals twice. At 26, MJ had 1 MVP and hadn't even gotten out of the conference finals yet. LBJ and the Heat could win four in a row, god forbid, and with his current pace, LBJ could potentially get multiple MVPs, titles etc.

Take Kobe comparisons
In the MJ-comparisons, Kobe is too inefficient, and only have 5 titles. Well, Kobe will obviously never best MJ in efficiency, but he may in amout of titles, which is the standard way of comparing all-time greats (unless of course if your name is MJ, then 6 is enough and Russells 11 is ignored). The case for Kobe is that while his season averages is a bit lower than MJs, his skill-set, versatility is second to none, and ceiling is almost Wilt-like (81, 2x60+ games in 3 quarters, even MJ couldn't do that). Also, Kobe could potentially beat Kareems 38K, get 7+ titles and have an overall better career than MJ. Will it happen, probably not, but saying Kobe is nowhere near what MJ was is pathetic.
Another thing: Kobes performance in last years finals, people called it un-MJ-like. Once again people forget: Final game in 1996 Finals against Seattle, MJ was 5-19.

It seems the MJ-lovers always picks the part of MJs game that fits the currrent discussion, and never questions the greatness of MJ.

Kobe and LBJ will probably never best MJ in the GOAT discussions, but they might, and they should at least be in the discussion. But why do the Wilts, Russells and Kareems take a back-seat to MJ in these discussions, when depending how you look at it easily were better than MJ?

never ending story? yet your thread only continues it... hmmm

The case for MJ over anyone in this era is well established and it is not just the titles, the scoring titles, the MVP's, the DPOY award, the building of a team from the ground up, etc... It is all of the above and more.
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#17 Guest_MyJohnsonisMagic_*

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 01:02 PM

jordan won in an era of not only increased competition, but a 29 team league. kobe in a league of 30 teams.


Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? :laughing:

Increased competition you say?

You do realize Jordan and Rodman were about the only old dudes from the 80's playing at a high level while
everybody else had withered away from their prime by the time they sized Jordan up in the finals.

Jordan was younger than most of these cats he faced, his opponents were past their prime and yet
people considered these guys good competition because there was no other to turn to.

#18 androsays

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 01:27 PM

in comparison to the competition bill russell faced

there was definitely some great talents that he went up against, but for the most part he was playing against a bunch of unathletic tall dudes

Edited by androsays, June 11, 2011 - 01:28 PM.


2div

#19 Guest_MyJohnsonisMagic_*

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 01:39 PM

in comparison to the competition bill russell faced

there was definitely some great talents that he went up against, but for the most part he was playing against a bunch of unathletic tall dudes


How old are you first of all? (because I highly doubt you actually watched enough games from the 60's
to give us your two cents on that era).

How would you know what kind of competition Russell went up against if you didnt see it with your own two?

Heck a lot of people didnt even get to see all the games in that time unless they attended the actual events,
because they werent all televised.

Lakers_55 is the only dude that can take us back to those days, you might wanna use this guy for reference
before you just throw stuff out there without anything to back it up.

Edited by MyJohnsonisMagic, June 11, 2011 - 01:40 PM.


#20 androsays

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Posted June 11, 2011 - 02:13 PM

you're right that i'm too young to have seen these games live, i have seen a fair share of documentaries, highlights and various clips. definitely does not do the real thing justice but it's not like i'm going into this conversation blind

i'm basing my speculations off of the fact that extremely physically gifted athletes like wilt and bill russell were rare (in an 8 team, i said 9 earlier, then later 14 team league). these guys dominated the game because they were taller, stronger, ran faster and jumped higher than everybody else (it also helps that bill russell was a MASTERMIND on the defensive end). nowadays supremely gifted athletes are dime a dozen in a 30 team NBA.

hell, the fact alone that jordan and kobe were competing against 22 extra teams for a championship instantly makes the competition more difficult.

again, i'm not trying to take anything away from bill russell's celtics, 11 championships in ANYTHING is ridiculous.

2div




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