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#101 fido

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Posted June 26, 2013 - 10:24 PM

Not pickin' to be pickin' - they're poor films on several levels.



#102 AnnoyingCustomer

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Posted June 27, 2013 - 12:08 AM

- Darth Maul duels Obi-Wan AND a Jedi Master in Jinn and actually kills one of the most revered Jedi ever and it's..."nothing"???

 

That fight scene is better than the originals final scenes...COMBINED. But you miss the main point of Maul: revelation of the Sith...or "re-revelation". 

 

- Again, there is no comparison with the fight scenes. The originals fight scenes were just plain embarrassing to watch. What the prequels did is make the force look bad-ass, make it look powerful and believable, allowed the audience to see what real trained force users were capable of doing. Acrobatics and the lightsaber sparring was superior to ANYTHING that the "sequels" have done in that area. 

 

- How is the origin of Anakin Skywalker horrible? There's no hard evidence of whether his existence is due to Plagueis and/or Sidious or just a result of the Force itself. But, that's what makes it intriguing. I mean, it's a sci-fi movie.

 

- Jinn was apprentice to Dooku, master of Obi-Wan Kenobi, discovered Anakin Skywalker, so how is he a pointless character? He was sent to handle the Naboo situation. I mean, the council could have sent someone else I guess??? This is a time when the Jedi are plenty and it's just Yoda/Luke/Leia like in the originals.

 

- Obi-Wan is not even one of my favorite Jedi but I don't get your beef. At the time, he was just an apprentice so what exactly did you expect him to do???

 

I think some people who hate the prequels are just pickin' to be pickin'

 

Darth Maul is in 5 of the movie's 136 minutes, that's 4% of the total run time.  All he does is kill a character that should never have been in the movie to begin with, so yes he does nothing.  

 

The fight scene looks better than the scenes in the originals, sure.  That's what happens when you have the benefit of technology advancing 20 years...

 

But to say this one random, meaningless lightsaber fight (Qui Gon is pointless, Darth Maul is barely seen & Obi Wan does nothing the entire movie so nobody cares about these characters by the end of the film when the fight takes place) is better than all the original lightsaber fights combined is just silly and completely ignores the most important aspect of movie making, character & story development.  

 

The prequels showed the Force to be bad ass & powerful or whatever with the special EFX, sure.  George Lucas threw a bunch of pretty crap on the screen with his expensive computers, but so what?  Again, this doesn't make the movies superior, it just illustrates the time period in which the movies are made.  

 

I didn't mean to say that the idea of the origin story of Anakin Skywalker is horrible: I meant that their execution of writing said story was crap...

 

Qui Gon is pointless because his entire purpose in the movie could have been served by Obi Wan, who as I've mentioned sat around the entire movie and did a whole lot of nothing.

  • He didn't need to be the one who discovered Anakin.  In the original movies, it's established that Obi Wan was Anakin's master, so it would have been reasonable to have Obi Wan be the one that finds him and is determined to train him, no matter the warnings & bad juju.  
  • He didn't need to be Obi Wan's master.  It's established in the originals that Obi Wan was trained by Yoda, who is basically the best Jedi ever. 

So why even bother bringing this extra dude into the mix in the first place?  It just shoves Obi Wan's importance to the side, and the way they wrote the 3 movies they show Obi Wan as never having the loving bond with Anakin that we see in his eyes as he recollects to Luke in Episode IV.  

 

Plus making him an apprentice at the start of the prequels was just dumb.  So he's an apprentice when he meets Anakin, then barely gets knighted as a Jedi before he begins to train him which helps lead to his downfall or whatever.  But wasn't Anakin supposed to be a great Jedi Knight that was lured & twisted by the Dark side?  I dunno, it's just weird lazy writing that just convolutes & contradicts the entire story that's already been established...

 

I'm definitely not picking to be picking.  The prequels are horribly made movies that are a joke compared to the originals...


Edited by AnnoyingCustomer, June 27, 2013 - 12:11 AM.

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#103 Windu

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Posted June 27, 2013 - 10:11 AM

How are you going to say a certain character shouldn't have been in the movie??? All of this [expletive] comes from George Lucas anyway; you can't fault a writer for their creative discretion. 

 

You didn't pay attention to anything I said. I listed reasons as to why I personally enjoyed Episode I and Darth Maul was one of the reasons. Prior to him, what kind of believable force use were we witness to? The clumsiness of the originals? I don't care if it was 20+ years ago...it was pathetic. I'm not going to repeat what I said just because you're ignoring it. That ONE fight scene from ONE prequel was 100X better than ANYTHING the originals came up with. I'm talking about FIGHTING SCENES...not character development.

 

Sidious had Maul, Sidious had Dooku, and Sidious had Vader. Again, another reason why Maul was in the movie. Sidious was doing his political routine while he dispatched his apprentices to do the "fieldwork". The Jedi believed the Sith were pretty much non-existent so what does having Maul accomplish? It begins the chess match and you see the endgame in Revenge of the Sith. What does Maul vs Jinn/Obi-Wan show? It shows the force's prowess, it shows a discernible difference between Jedi/Sith, and it shows the Sith's arrogance. 

 

You complain about Jinn (which I'll get to in a second) but then complain that there was no character and story development. You're just not paying attention that's all. This is a Sci-Fi series ffs. This just goes back to what I've been saying: You're not paying attention and in particular...you're not paying attention to what I've stated.

 

What did I say?

 

The stories were presented better in episodes 4/5/6

 

Some days I'd rather watch the originals and some days I'd rather watch the prequels.

 

The acting could have been better

 

TKain asked me why I enjoyed Episode I and I listed my reasons. Those are MY reasons and they are without regard for what anyone else's opinion is...particularly people who like to nitpick at every little thing. 

 

You know what? I like seeing pretty crap on the screen; much better than ugly crap on the screen. 

 

Back to Qui-Gon Jinn...

 

- Dooku's padawan

- Obi-Wan's master 

- Jedi Master

- Died at the hands of a Sith

- Discovered Anakin Skywalker (he's kind of important)

- Insisted that Skywalker be trained

 

Why don't you go and talk to Lucas about what he "needed" to do. Of course Obi-Wan was Anakin's master but you're missing the point again: Who in the hell was Obi-Wan's master! Yoda trains damn near all of the Jedi but at the time Yoda wasn't really going out and doing fieldwork. That's what the Jedi Knights are for.

 

So why even bother bringing this extra dude into the mix in the first place?  It just shoves Obi Wan's importance to the side, and the way they wrote the 3 movies they show Obi Wan as never having the loving bond with Anakin that we see in his eyes as he recollects to Luke in Episode IV.

 

WTF??? Are you thinking before you type? These are the prequels...the Jedi are many. These aren't the originals in which the Jedi were damn near extinct. It could have been the pillsbury doughboy but it was a character named Qui Gon Jinn. 

 

If anything, the importance of Obi-Wan was magnified. It shows his master and his apprenticeship. It shows Obi-Wan defeating a Sith, it shows Obi-Wan's force abilites (as opposed to some old fart saying "Use the force Luke"), etc etc etc. Loving bond we see in his eyes? What the hell are you talking about lol man...this ain't no soap opera! 

 

In the prequels, what Jedi defeated a Sith in like...forever? Obi-Wan

 

In the prequels, what Jedi insisted on training Skywalker? Obi-Wan

 

In the prequels, you saw Obi-Wan as a Jedi apprentice, you saw him as a Jedi Knight, you saw him as a Jedi Master, you saw him defeat a Sith, you saw him duel Dooku (and lose badly I might add), you saw him take out Grievous, you saw him take out Vader. Obi-Wan Kenobi was all over the damn prequels...dude was EVERYWHERE.

 

Plus making him an apprentice at the start of the prequels was just dumb.  So he's an apprentice when he meets Anakin, then barely gets knighted as a Jedi before he begins to train him which helps lead to his downfall or whatever.  But wasn't Anakin supposed to be a great Jedi Knight that was lured & twisted by the Dark side?  I dunno, it's just weird lazy writing that just convolutes & contradicts the entire story that's already been established...

 

Yeh, you complained about this already. He's an apprentice when he meets Anakin...so what??? Who cares? What does it even matter? He was an apprentice under Jinn and while being an apprentice...he killed a Sith Lord: I think it was time for knighthood. Anakin WAS a great Jedi Knight...he and Obi-Wan were a devastating team. 

 

This is the kind of [expletive] I was talking about: NITPICKING over nothing. 


Edited by Windu, June 27, 2013 - 02:07 PM.

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#104 Majesty

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Posted June 28, 2013 - 02:14 AM

Pretty much I mean he freaking beat Darth Maul.

That's better than the trials me thinks lol

It isn't the first time that a Jedi has been Knighted for something they accomplished in the fields, it ain't always in the trials.

Many Jedi's have done something heroic in the field or conquered something unconquerable and then were Knighted upon returning. 

Obi-Wan beat Darth Maul, proving he deserved to be a Jedi Knight.

Why would anyone complain?  He made the leap from Padawan to Knight in that fight and the result.


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#105 Chad

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 11:23 AM

Anyone here read SW Comics?


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#106 Windu

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Posted June 30, 2013 - 06:08 PM

I don't. [expletive]load of the novels though

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#107 fido

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 06:36 PM

Novels, comics, quite honestly they're all the same.



#108 AnnoyingCustomer

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Posted July 01, 2013 - 06:41 PM

How am I going to say a character shouldn't be in the movie?  It's pretty easy: when the character in question (Qui Gon) is performing the role that was meant for another previously established character that is also in the movie (Obi Wan), that new character shouldn't be in the movie.  And of course you can fault the writer (in this case Lucas) for his/her creative choices if those creative choices lead to sloppy, crappy & convoluted writing...

 

You didn't pay attention to anything I said.

 

I've paid attention, you're not bringing up anything that is hard to understand...

 

I'm not going to repeat what I said just because you're ignoring it. That ONE fight scene from ONE prequel was 100X better than ANYTHING the originals came up with. I'm talking about FIGHTING SCENES...not character development.

 

Lol I didn't ignore anything.  I conceded the fact that the lightsaber fights in the prequel movies look better than the originals.  And that is the point you're making, that they look better.  If you think I'm ignoring that point then you are the one that's not paying attention to what's being said here... 

 

But you're also doing what you suggested I'm doing by ignoring a major element of the fight scenes themselves: the storyline & character development that has lead up to that moment of the fight.  All of the fight scenes from the original movies are more interesting than the one in The Phantom Menace because the characters were developed so much better.  

 

What happened in this movie to lead up to the fight?  Maul followed the crew to Tatooine and popped up on Qui Gon, and Qui Gon was like "oh [expletive]" and they briefly tussled for like a minute.  And then the next time the characters meet, at the end of the movie, they fight to the death.  The fight looked better than the original fights but with so little invested in the characters it is less meaningful than any of the original fights and is boring.  Especially with all the long pauses where stupid Obi Wan is waiting behind the force fields...why didn't he just use his Force Sprint power to dash in real quick to the fight?  They showed him & Qui Gon do that in the very beginning of the movie.  Again, sloppy writing...

 

Sidious had Maul, Sidious had Dooku, and Sidious had Vader. Again, another reason why Maul was in the movie. Sidious was doing his political routine while he dispatched his apprentices to do the "fieldwork". The Jedi believed the Sith were pretty much non-existent so what does having Maul accomplish? It begins the chess match and you see the endgame in Revenge of the Sith. What does Maul vs Jinn/Obi-Wan show? It shows the force's prowess, it shows a discernible difference between Jedi/Sith, and it shows the Sith's arrogance. 

 

That's cool, I never protested Maul's presence in the movie.  I simply question him being listed as a positive for the movie due to his lack of screen time and impact on the story.  

 

You complain about Jinn (which I'll get to in a second) but then complain that there was no character and story development. You're just not paying attention that's all. This is a Sci-Fi series ffs. This just goes back to what I've been saying: You're not paying attention and in particular...you're not paying attention to what I've stated.

 

Lol you're right, I'm not paying attention at all...

 

I said there was lack of character & story development in regards to the fight scenes, in particular Darth Maul & Obi Wan who did nothing in the movie.  There is character & story development in the movie of course, I'm not saying there isn't.  I'm saying what they did and how they went about it was poor (again, sloppy writing)...

 

TKain asked me why I enjoyed Episode I and I listed my reasons. Those are MY reasons and they are without regard for what anyone else's opinion is...particularly people who like to nitpick at every little thing. 

 

I'm aware of what he asked you and your response, I have been paying attention despite your insisting that I haven't been.  

 

I'm aware that it's your opinion and that's all fine & well.  But if you put your opinion out to the public you better be prepared to have people question or refute your opinion.  This is a thread titled "Star Wars Discussion / Debate" - if you don't want people to comment on your opinion then you should have just PM'd him your answer.  

 

WTF??? Are you thinking before you type? These are the prequels...the Jedi are many. These aren't the originals in which the Jedi were damn near extinct. It could have been the pillsbury doughboy but it was a character named Qui Gon Jinn.

 

Right, or it could have been a character named Obi Wan Kenobi...

 

Do you think before you type?  Where did I ever question the fact that there are numerous Jedi in the prequels?  I didn't.  All I've been talking about is that Qui Gon is an unnecessary character.  

 

Obi Wan could have been showed as just coming out of his trials and he's off on assignment and he finds Anakin and there we go.  They've already established in the originals that he was trained by Yoda, we don't need to see him being trained in these movies because they're not about him, they're about Anakin.  

 

No I'm not George Lucas so of course he can do the movies however he wants.  And that's fine, but what he gave us was pretty looking movies with horrible writing, horrible acting and piss poor direction.

 

If anything, the importance of Obi-Wan was magnified. It shows his master and his apprenticeship. It shows Obi-Wan defeating a Sith, it shows Obi-Wan's force abilites (as opposed to some old fart saying "Use the force Luke"), etc etc etc. Loving bond we see in his eyes? What the hell are you talking about lol man...this ain't no soap opera! 

 

Right, and he could have still been shown defeating a Sith without the Qui Gon being in the movie.  His importance wasn't magnified in this movie because we don't see him do anything at all until 2+ hours into it...

 

The loving bond I talk about is in Ep IV when Obi Wan recollects to Luke about Anakin.  He speaks about him with reverence and awe, and calls him a good friend.  The look in his eye and the words he chooses show that he loved Anakin. 

 

But we never see that in the prequels.  All we see from Obi Wan towards Anakin is disdain and burden.

 

 

 


 

In the prequels, what Jedi insisted on training Skywalker? Obi-Wan

 

 

Again, who's not paying attention here?  Obi Wan never wanted to train Anakin, he agreed with the council that he was dangerous and shouldn't be trained.  The only reason he went through with training him is because he promised his dying master that he would.  

 

In the prequels, you saw Obi-Wan as a Jedi apprentice, you saw him as a Jedi Knight, you saw him as a Jedi Master, you saw him defeat a Sith, you saw him duel Dooku (and lose badly I might add), you saw him take out Grievous, you saw him take out Vader. Obi-Wan Kenobi was all over the damn prequels...dude was EVERYWHERE.

 

I said that Obi Wan did nothing in The Phantom Menace, not all 3 of the prequels.  The Phantom Menace is what you were listing positive elements about.  Again, who's not paying attention here?

 

Yeh, you complained about this already. He's an apprentice when he meets Anakin...so what??? Who cares? What does it even matter? He was an apprentice under Jinn and while being an apprentice...he killed a Sith Lord: I think it was time for knighthood. Anakin WAS a great Jedi Knight...he and Obi-Wan were a devastating team. 

 

No didn't.  The first time I mentioned him being an apprentice was at the end of my previous post which you were replying to here.  Pay attention...

 

Anakin was a great Jedi?  Lol, too bad we never saw that in the movies either...

 

This is the kind of [expletive] I was talking about: NITPICKING over nothing.

 

No it's not nitpicking over nothing.  It's being critical of the movie's severe lack of competence in several crucial areas of film making...


Edited by AnnoyingCustomer, July 02, 2013 - 02:25 PM.

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#109 TKainZero

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 10:23 AM

^^^^

 

 

*clap clap*

Bravo!



#110 Windu

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 11:33 AM

I'll get to that mess when I can

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#111 Windu

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 07:46 PM

Your agenda was obvious from the very first moment you entered this thread. You bash everything about the prequels:

"Portman and Jackson sucked"

"The writing is terrible too"

Etc etc etc

What brought us further was tkain asking me a question. You [expletive]ed about me mentioning Maul and said he did nothing. Of course, you're in your own little world because the fact that Maul killed Jinn is miniscule to you. Why is that? Because Jinn is meaninglessness to you. I told you having Maul accomplished a few things: 1. Sith (believable Sith) 2. Better presentation of the force (much better than the ol swinging a bat routine of the originals). I start talking about fighting scenes and you circumnavigate and start moaning about character development (when I've repeatedly stated the originals are superior in that aspect)

"meh is about the kindest word I could use to describe the garbage Prequel trilogy"

Yes who are you to decide who/what/when/where/how/why something does or does not happen in a movie? Were you part of the film team and your ideas snubbed? Sounds to me like you're taking this personally. You have a really [expletive]ed perception if you think one character (Obi-Wan) is supposed to serve two roles at the same time. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with Jinn being in this movie. You say they could have just had Obi-Wan but how does that make sense in your mind when Lucas decided on having his master first? It's called nitpicking because there is no good reason NOT to have Jinn. I explained this but you shrugged it off. Obi-Wan was a padawan so he obviously couldn't be Anakin's master. You have beef with the timeline of events and its trivial at best.

Why did Lucas make Hutts fat ugly things?
Why did Lucas have Leia?
Why is Lando black?

Artist/Writer decision...deal with it.

NONE of the fight scenes in the originals are interesting. It's a snore fest.

Maul didn't have impact on the story??? U trolling? He didn't do any gushy heartfelt things that you seem to cherish...maybe that's why you believe that.

You can't refute a personal opinion when I say I like this and here's why. You're trying to be too analytical instead of accepting the movies for what they are: Entertainment.

All you're doing is [expletive]ing. Complaining with shoulda coulda wouldas...if I didn't know any better I'd think lucas stole your material and you're pissed about it.

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#112 AnnoyingCustomer

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Posted July 02, 2013 - 11:35 PM

:laughing: 


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#113 Chad

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Posted July 04, 2013 - 10:50 PM

NONE of the fight scenes in the originals are interesting. It's a snore fest.

 

That is a lie. 


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#114 Windu

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Posted July 05, 2013 - 06:41 AM

I find the puppy bowl on animal planet more entertaining

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#115 fido

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Posted July 06, 2013 - 11:28 PM

Windu, sometimes its hilarious how completely off-base you are - but to each their own I guess.



#116 Windu

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Posted July 07, 2013 - 05:47 AM

Jump in Fido

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#117 flota

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Posted July 07, 2013 - 01:23 PM

NONE of the fight scenes in the originals are interesting. It's a snore fest.



That's not true.
I get some of your points.
The best prequel for me was the third one, i didn't like the "love affairs" in the first and second


We need a stronger story for episode 7, I hope they dont use that crap of palpatin clones and resurrection from the expanded universe
Imposible is nothing.

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#118 Windu

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Posted July 07, 2013 - 04:15 PM

I mean those fight scenes are some of the worst in film history. I just fast forward

 

Anakin and Padme didn't have that same charm and chemistry as Han and Leia. But you have to remember: Vader was being played by Hayden Christensen while Han Solo was being played by Harrison Ford.


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#119 flota

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Posted July 08, 2013 - 06:12 PM

Yeah actors
But han and leia didn't seem like "forced", but thats probably because han was a badass.
Anakin and padme were really awkward to me
Imposible is nothing.

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#120 DTIII™

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Posted July 08, 2013 - 08:01 PM

Yeah actors
But han and leia didn't seem like "forced", but thats probably because han was a badass.
Anakin and padme were really awkward to me

Not only you, a ton of people feel like that.


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