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#61 Majesty

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Posted January 21, 2014 - 06:01 AM


Don't worry, he wasn't. Goku would mop the floor with Gohan.



Gohan in the Cell saga.  No.   Mystic Gohan that made Maijin Buu his [expletive] and Goku needed to fuse with Vegeta just to handle?   no... 
 

The only time Goku was ever stronger than Gohan was pre Cell saga and in GT. 


One thing though about Gohan is that when he went Super Saiyan he had more Saiyan tendencies than his father.  Gohan would KILL, and he would make people suffer.  Goku would always give people the chance to live.  Gohan was a bit more primal, he either one shot you, or he tortured you first.    

 

So in a way he was more of a natural Saiyan by tendency than Goku was who would try to let Freiza live even after killing Krillin his best friend.  had that been Gohan Freiza would have been one shot the instant Gohan had a chance...and actually Freiza DID get one shot by Gohan when he had the chance later on  :laughing:   


Akira Toriyama admitted that after the Cell saga Gohan was indeed stronger than Goku and was intended to be the main character moving forward and Toriyama only went forward with making Goku a main focal point in another saga(the Buu saga) because of fan demands.  But even in the Buu saga Goku was stronger when he went to Super Saiyan 3(a feat he could only achieve in death) for a few episodes but Gohan became powerful to a point he didn't need to go Super Saiyan as he had surpassed every limitation set by them.   

So in essence from the Cell saga onwards, Gohan was the stronger of the two 95% of the time.  Goku was stronger in GT but that wasn't really something Toriyama did so meh. 

Doesn't matter who was stronger though, Goku was always going to be the one that 'saved the world' as he was the fan favorite :)


Edited by Majesty, January 21, 2014 - 06:03 AM.

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#62 Windu

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Posted January 21, 2014 - 10:08 AM

 

Gohan in the Cell saga.  No.   Mystic Gohan that made Maijin Buu his [expletive] and Goku needed to fuse with Vegeta just to handle?   no... 
 

The only time Goku was ever stronger than Gohan was pre Cell saga and in GT. 


One thing though about Gohan is that when he went Super Saiyan he had more Saiyan tendencies than his father.  Gohan would KILL, and he would make people suffer.  Goku would always give people the chance to live.  Gohan was a bit more primal, he either one shot you, or he tortured you first.    

 

So in a way he was more of a natural Saiyan by tendency than Goku was who would try to let Freiza live even after killing Krillin his best friend.  had that been Gohan Freiza would have been one shot the instant Gohan had a chance...and actually Freiza DID get one shot by Gohan when he had the chance later on   :laughing:   


Akira Toriyama admitted that after the Cell saga Gohan was indeed stronger than Goku and was intended to be the main character moving forward and Toriyama only went forward with making Goku a main focal point in another saga(the Buu saga) because of fan demands.  But even in the Buu saga Goku was stronger when he went to Super Saiyan 3(a feat he could only achieve in death) for a few episodes but Gohan became powerful to a point he didn't need to go Super Saiyan as he had surpassed every limitation set by them.   

So in essence from the Cell saga onwards, Gohan was the stronger of the two 95% of the time.  Goku was stronger in GT but that wasn't really something Toriyama did so meh. 

Doesn't matter who was stronger though, Goku was always going to be the one that 'saved the world' as he was the fan favorite  :)

 

Yes! A DBZ debate!  :woot:

 

Gohan in the Cell saga.  No.   Mystic Gohan that made Maijin Buu his [expletive] and Goku needed to fuse with Vegeta just to handle?   no... 
 

The only time Goku was ever stronger than Gohan was pre Cell saga and in GT.

 

Think of Goku as Kobe Bryant: No one is more skilled and no one will out-work him. Gohan is always helped along by Goku. Goku achieved SSJ levels 1, 2, 3, and 4. His experience(s) and training would simply be too much for Gohan. 

 

Even at the end of the Cell Saga (When Gohan was indeed more powerful due to SSJ2), he needed Goku's assistance.

 

One thing though about Gohan is that when he went Super Saiyan he had more Saiyan tendencies than his father.  Gohan would KILL, and he would make people suffer.  Goku would always give people the chance to live.  Gohan was a bit more primal, he either one shot you, or he tortured you first.

 

It wasn't until Gohan reached SSJ2 that he developed an "edge". Even then, had he not been so cocky...his father wouldn't have had to sacrifice himself  :laughing:

 

So in a way he was more of a natural Saiyan by tendency than Goku was who would try to let Freiza live even after killing Krillin his best friend.  had that been Gohan Freiza would have been one shot the instant Gohan had a chance...and actually Freiza DID get one shot by Gohan when he had the chance later on

 

Neither Goku nor Gohan were Saiyans by tendency. Goku is the pure-blood Saiyan but is likely not as aggressive as his fellow Saiyans due to the bump on his noggin' as a kid. Both Goku's and Gohan's anger can be kindled at the sight of their loved ones being hurt but Goku LOVES to fight and Gohan does not. 

 

Akira Toriyama admitted that after the Cell saga Gohan was indeed stronger than Goku and was intended to be the main character moving forward and Toriyama only went forward with making Goku a main focal point in another saga(the Buu saga) because of fan demands.  But even in the Buu saga Goku was stronger when he went to Super Saiyan 3(a feat he could only achieve in death) for a few episodes but Gohan became powerful to a point he didn't need to go Super Saiyan as he had surpassed every limitation set by them.

  

Gohan needed Old Kai to unlock his hidden powers and then he became Ultimate Gohan. A fully powered SSJ3 Goku can go toe-to-toe with Ultimate Gohan but I'll concede that Gohan would win a CLOSE sparring battle something like 10-9. For hypothetical sake, if there was no relation between the two and they fought to the death, I'd give the edge to Goku 10-8. To your second point...

 

With the ending of the Cell arc, Gohan was meant to replace his father as the main protagonist, however, Toriyama later decided against it

 

Gohan couldn't have carried the show. Goku was far more interesting and popular. 

 

So in essence from the Cell saga onwards, Gohan was the stronger of the two 95% of the time.  Goku was stronger in GT but that wasn't really something Toriyama did so meh. 

Doesn't matter who was stronger though, Goku was always going to be the one that 'saved the world' as he was the fan favorite 

 

Also consider that if Goku could sustain SSJ3, then he'd probably beat Ultimate Gohan. Like I eluded to with the hypothetical, Goku would find a way to win.


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#63 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 21, 2014 - 10:11 AM

Ya Gohan was definitely stronger cell games on. They made that very clear

I always felt it was because he was a little bit goku and a little bit vegeta.
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#64 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 21, 2014 - 10:14 AM

After seeing man of steel all I kept thinking was, now here's a director that could get the DB fight scenes right


It couldn't be done live action. Super saiyans all that stuff would be way too campy. Motion capture would be an option and could be cool
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#65 flota

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 08:41 PM

toriyama wanted gohan as the protagonist during and after the cell saga, but he didnt live up to his potential so he scraped the idea.

Goku is stronger than gohan... way stronger


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#66 PhillyLaker24

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 08:58 PM



 

The only time Goku was ever stronger than Gohan was pre Cell saga and in GT. 



So in essence from the Cell saga onwards, Gohan was the stronger of the two 95% of the time. 

 

Not true. In buu saga before the old kai helped him reach his full potential he was very weak. Remember his fight with Debora? Vegeta was watching the whole time saying how weak gohan was and how easy he could wreck Debora. Now obviously this is much like Vegeta to say this, but Goku agreed with vegeta by saying Gohan was out of practice and wasn't as sharp as he used to be.

 

Now when he did have older kai release his ability he gained a lot of strength. Now was he stronger then goku? Ehh I would say not. He had a problem with Super buu after he absorbs gotenks and then piccolo I believe. He eventually was outmatched by super buu who then absorbed him beofe goku and gohan could fuse to make a stronger fighter. Now Goku was ssj3 and went head to head with Kid buu who was much stronger then any form of super buu. Now Goku was dead at the time so that does help make his body stronger and more durable, and he wasn't really as strong kid buu, but still was able to hold his own for a while.

 

I think it is safe to say Gohan was only definitely stronger than goku was during the end of cell saga. Other than that Goku was the stronger of the two.


Edited by PhillyLaker24, January 29, 2014 - 08:58 PM.

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#67 RobBlake

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 10:14 PM

Goku is the most skilled fighter in the Z universe. I'd however call Vegeta the smarter fighter. Vegeta did not have emotion in his fight other than to beat that ass. The only time he let his sayian cockiness get in the way was versus imperfect Cell. Also, SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Majestic or w/e Gohan. Gohan lost a lot of power by not tryin and they made him so freakin dumb post-cell.  I think Ascended Trunks, Goku,and Vegeta *where they got so buff they lost loads of speed* had the power to go toe to toe against SSJ2 Gohan for awhile, but they were too slow.

 

This is what Cell showed Trunks..


Edited by RobBlake, January 29, 2014 - 10:15 PM.

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#68 Ven

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 10:38 PM

 

 

Yes! A DBZ debate!  :woot:

 

Even at the end of the Cell Saga (When Gohan was indeed more powerful due to SSJ2), he needed Goku's assistance.

 

 

It wasn't until Gohan reached SSJ2 that he developed an "edge". Even then, had he not been so cocky...his father wouldn't have had to sacrifice himself  :laughing:

 

 

Neither Goku nor Gohan were Saiyans by tendency. Goku is the pure-blood Saiyan but is likely not as aggressive as his fellow Saiyans due to the bump on his noggin' as a kid. Both Goku's and Gohan's anger can be kindled at the sight of their loved ones being hurt but Goku LOVES to fight and Gohan does not. 

 

 

I had noticed that whenever a saiyan even half would transform or gain a power increase, that natural blood lust and urge to fight would kick in and their decisions would become a little questionable. Goku no exception, such as letting Frieza get to 100% power level, allow Vegeta to leave on the account to fight in the future, and giving Cell a senzu bean after fighting just to see him fight at full strength with Gohan. Goahn with Cell and even Mystic Gohan with Buu got cocky and reckless.

 

I don't think Gohan needed assistance at all, if anything he beat Cell because Vegeta assisted him, Goku was just motivating and cheerleading him. I am in the group that think that SSJ3 was probably stronger than Mystic Gohan it he could have made it continual.



#69 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 10:41 PM

toriyama wanted gohan as the protagonist during and after the cell saga, but he didnt live up to his potential so he scraped the idea.
Goku is stronger than gohan... way stronger


False. Gohan was stronger.
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#70 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 29, 2014 - 11:12 PM

Not true. In buu saga before the old kai helped him reach his full potential he was very weak. Remember his fight with Debora? Vegeta was watching the whole time saying how weak gohan was and how easy he could wreck Debora. Now obviously this is much like Vegeta to say this, but Goku agreed with vegeta by saying Gohan was out of practice and wasn't as sharp as he used to be.

Now when he did have older kai release his ability he gained a lot of strength. Now was he stronger then goku? Ehh I would say not. He had a problem with Super buu after he absorbs gotenks and then piccolo I believe. He eventually was outmatched by super buu who then absorbed him beofe goku and gohan could fuse to make a stronger fighter. Now Goku was ssj3 and went head to head with Kid buu who was much stronger then any form of super buu. Now Goku was dead at the time so that does help make his body stronger and more durable, and he wasn't really as strong kid buu, but still was able to hold his own for a while.

I think it is safe to say Gohan was only definitely stronger than goku was during the end of cell saga. Other than that Goku was the stronger of the two.


First of all Gohan was weaker because he stopped training in peace time as you said, but some stuff you said is false

Kid buu was not stronger than super buu. The Kai's were able to fight kid buu, kid buu was just really strong with no inhibitions. He was a ruthless killing machine

Gohan smacked around super buu like a fly until he absorbed gotenks and piccolo

If you remember goku pleaded with vegeta to fuse because he knew he couldn't compete with super buu

Hence kid buu being much weaker than super buu

Remember goku was suddenly was willing to take turns fighting buu when he was kid buu but now when he was super buu. It's because kid buu was weaker.

Now Gohan wasnt the skilled fighter goku was. Goku just had so much more attacks, but in terms of pure raw energy Gohan has always been the strongest. That was established by toriyama himself

When goku couldn't handle raditz, Gohan as a child with his rage severely damaged him.

It was a theme throughout the show.

Gohan was the strongest fighter in the show. All things equal he was the strongest. In the cell saga he was the strongest and in the buu saga he was. Had he been on the planet of the kais he would have beaten the hell out of buu.

Now both goku and Gohan could have destroyed buu, especially of both decided just to do it instead of toying with buu
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#71 Windu

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 07:17 AM

First of all Gohan was weaker because he stopped training in peace time as you said, but some stuff you said is false

Gohan smacked around super buu like a fly until he absorbed gotenks and piccolo

If you remember goku pleaded with vegeta to fuse because he knew he couldn't compete with super buu

Remember goku was suddenly was willing to take turns fighting buu when he was kid buu but now when he was super buu. It's because kid buu was weaker.

Now Gohan wasnt the skilled fighter goku was. Goku just had so much more attacks, but in terms of pure raw energy Gohan has always been the strongest. That was established by toriyama himself

When goku couldn't handle raditz, Gohan as a child with his rage severely damaged him.

It was a theme throughout the show.

Gohan was the strongest fighter in the show. All things equal he was the strongest. In the cell saga he was the strongest and in the buu saga he was. Had he been on the planet of the kais he would have beaten the hell out of buu.

Now both goku and Gohan could have destroyed buu, especially of both decided just to do it instead of toying with buu

 

Gohan was weaker because he stopped training in peace time

 

That's a Gohan problem.

 

Gohan smacked around super buu like a fly until he absorbed gotenks and piccolo

 

That's right. Until. And then what happens to Gohan? He gets absorbed by Super Buu lol

 

If you remember goku pleaded with vegeta to fuse because he knew he couldn't compete with super buu

 

Well, at first, he wanted to fuse with his son but It's not like GOHAN was available.  <_<

 

Now Gohan wasnt the skilled fighter goku was. Goku just had so much more attacks, but in terms of pure raw energy Gohan has always been the strongest. That was established by toriyama himself

 

Pretty much everything that Gohan knows comes from Goku (and the rest from Piccolo). Pure raw energy (on account of Gohan's mixed blood) would mean little if Gohan and Goku somehow fought. 

 

When goku couldn't handle raditz, Gohan as a child with his rage severely damaged him.

It was a theme throughout the show.

 

Oh please! Raditz? lol

 

The theme throughout the show is that Goku saves the day. What accomplishment(s) other than defeating Cell (with Goku's help) does Gohan have? 

 

Only two times in which Gohan was more powerful than Goku: When he FIRST attained SSJ2 (before Goku did) during the Cell Saga and when his powers were "awaken" by old kai to turn him into Ultimate Gohan during the Buu Saga.


Edited by Windu, January 30, 2014 - 07:18 AM.

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#72 flota

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 07:51 AM

Lol
the theme was that goku was in end the most powerfull. He always said that if he couldnt do it no one could.
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#73 netlord

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 10:32 AM

The Korean version, you are warned...

 


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#74 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 04:50 PM

That's a Gohan problem.


That's right. Until. And then what happens to Gohan? He gets absorbed by Super Buu lol


Well, at first, he wanted to fuse with his son but It's not like GOHAN was available. <_<


Pretty much everything that Gohan knows comes from Goku (and the rest from Piccolo). Pure raw energy (on account of Gohan's mixed blood) would mean little if Gohan and Goku somehow fought.


Oh please! Raditz? lol

The theme throughout the show is that Goku saves the day. What accomplishment(s) other than defeating Cell (with Goku's help) does Gohan have?

Only two times in which Gohan was more powerful than Goku: When he FIRST attained SSJ2 (before Goku did) during the Cell Saga and when his powers were "awaken" by old kai to turn him into Ultimate Gohan during the Buu Saga.


I don't get why you're arguing. We agree. Goku is the better fighter. He's much more skilled. Has more attacks

The question was who is more "powerful". Gohan is. His power is greater, his natural born talent is larger

Now who is better? Goku because he constantly trains, fighting is his life.

But Gohan is more talented. Mystic Gohan would beat SS3 goku power wise but as goku showed against raditz, vegeta, and buu is he just knows how to win. He has an extra gear, he is resourceful, it's why he had to help give Gohan the mental strength to finish off cell

He gets how to win
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#75 last stand 2.0

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 04:51 PM

Lol
the theme was that goku was in end the most powerfull. He always said that if he couldnt do it no one could.


Goku was the hero, but he wasn't the strongest
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#76 Windu

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Posted January 30, 2014 - 05:15 PM

I don't get why you're arguing. We agree. Goku is the better fighter. He's much more skilled. Has more attacks

The question was who is more "powerful". Gohan is. His power is greater, his natural born talent is larger

Now who is better? Goku because he constantly trains, fighting is his life.

But Gohan is more talented. Mystic Gohan would beat SS3 goku power wise but as goku showed against raditz, vegeta, and buu is he just knows how to win. He has an extra gear, he is resourceful, it's why he had to help give Gohan the mental strength to finish off cell

He gets how to win

 

I don't get why you're arguing. We agree. Goku is the better fighter. He's much more skilled. Has more attacks

 

Just a healthy debate on the greatest anime of all time. This debate in particular began because Majesty challenged my Dragonball authority...from a post TWO YEARS OLD!

 

challenge-my-authority-again-i-dare-you.

 

I conceded that Gohan was more powerful at the end of the Cell Saga. Gohan never went toe-to-toe with a villian and stopped anything directly. He beat Cell, but then Goku had to save the planet. 

 

Like I said before (more to your point), a sparring battle between SSJ3 Goku and Mystic Gohan would probably end in a VERY CLOSE 10-9 win for Gohan. 


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#77 Majesty

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Posted January 31, 2014 - 02:07 AM

By the end of Dragon Ball Z.  Gohan was in fact stronger. 

Akira Toriyama didn't have anything to do with GT so that's the only one where Goku was considered stronger.


But Gohan was stronger than a Super Saiyan 3 which is as high as Goku could go.  So technically by the end of the Z saga, Gohan is the strongest.   But Goku was the one whom always saved the day cause he was the fan favorite. 


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Posted March 25, 2014 - 12:51 AM

Top 5 Perverted Moments From Master Roshi (Dragonball Z)
 


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#79 Windu

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Posted April 26, 2014 - 07:18 PM

 

 

 


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#80 Majesty

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Posted April 26, 2014 - 07:25 PM

 

 

OVERDRAMATIC ANIME CLOSEUP GRUNT ACTIVATE!!!!! 1:08:49 


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