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The Dark Knight Rises


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#401 Return of Legend

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Posted August 14, 2012 - 07:39 PM

If TDKR is terrible then Green Hornet is Citizen Kane

So you're saying Green Hornet is better than TDKR
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#402 Hollywood

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Posted August 14, 2012 - 07:43 PM

TDKR is def not trash either Fido is too critical of movies or is just biased against the film. Fido what movies would you call masterpieces?

Edited by Hollywood, August 14, 2012 - 07:44 PM.

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#403 Mr Terrific

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Posted August 14, 2012 - 07:50 PM

So you're saying Green Hornet is better than TDKR

Hell nah! Seth Rogan can't make a good movie to save his life

Edited by Mr Terrific, August 15, 2012 - 05:23 AM.

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#404 Return of Legend

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Posted August 14, 2012 - 08:13 PM

At least Seth Green was funny in Austin Powers
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#405 ace™

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Posted August 14, 2012 - 08:28 PM

Isn't it Seth Rogen?

#406 Hollywood

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Posted August 14, 2012 - 08:30 PM

Yeah Rogen
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#407 Return of Legend

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Posted August 14, 2012 - 09:02 PM

Yea Mr Terrific was just really confused.
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#408 fido

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 11:18 AM

I have nothing personal against Batman or Christopher Nolan or anything involved with it. It was just a poorly executed movie. And the plot holes you say don't exist last stand, um yeah, they exist and there are several reviewers and others who saw the same things I did. What people do in movies they expect to like to want to like is they overlook some glaring flaws in it. I've done it as well, but with time you go back and realize that a lot of the reason you may like a movie is simply because of your excitement going into it., That doesn't make it a good movie and it doesn't make people who don't like someone with a vendetta.

It's funny, there is something about these Batman movies that when someone doesn't like them, some people get seriously upset. It tends to happen with cultural phenomenon movies, it's an odd thing.

Masterpieces? (There's a ton, but "The Dark Knight Rises" is far from a masterpiece. I'm not too critical, the movie was bad.)

Hmm, masterpieces. Off the top of my head.

To Kill A Mockingbird
Citizen Kane
The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars
Raiders Of The Lost Ark
Caddyshack
Animal House
Trading Places
The African Queen
Blackboard Jungle
Guess Who's Coming To Dinner
Cool Hand Luke
Treasure Of The Sierra Madre
The Maltese Falcon
The Magnificent Seven
The Wild Bunch
Black Dynamite
Airplane
Dawn Of The Dead (1978)

There's a ton more, but off the top of my head, those.

#409 True Lakers Fan

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 11:33 AM

isn't Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back the same thing? lol

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#410 Windu

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 12:31 PM

isn't Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back the same thing? lol


No

Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi

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#411 Busty Bluth

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 12:42 PM

definitely has holes. I didn't go in expecting I'd see the GOAT movie.

it was good enough for me.

my only gripe was it was too long.

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#412 last stand 2.0

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 12:50 PM

I have nothing personal against Batman or Christopher Nolan or anything involved with it. It was just a poorly executed movie. And the plot holes you say don't exist last stand, um yeah, they exist and there are several reviewers and others who saw the same things I did. What people do in movies they expect to like to want to like is they overlook some glaring flaws in it. I've done it as well, but with time you go back and realize that a lot of the reason you may like a movie is simply because of your excitement going into it., That doesn't make it a good movie and it doesn't make people who don't like someone with a vendetta.

It's funny, there is something about these Batman movies that when someone doesn't like them, some people get seriously upset. It tends to happen with cultural phenomenon movies, it's an odd thing.

Masterpieces? (There's a ton, but "The Dark Knight Rises" is far from a masterpiece. I'm not too critical, the movie was bad.)

Hmm, masterpieces. Off the top of my head.

To Kill A Mockingbird
Citizen Kane
The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars
Raiders Of The Lost Ark
Caddyshack
Animal House
Trading Places
The African Queen
Blackboard Jungle
Guess Who's Coming To Dinner
Cool Hand Luke
Treasure Of The Sierra Madre
The Maltese Falcon
The Magnificent Seven
The Wild Bunch
Black Dynamite
Airplane
Dawn Of The Dead (1978)

There's a ton more, but off the top of my head, those.


Easy to say they exist, harder to actually name them, even harder when you find out that they were explained in dialogue or canon

Ya critics say this and that. One I remember is a critic saying that the stock exchange scene happens at day and then the subsequent motorcycle scene happens at night claiming a plot hole

And then you watch the movie and my gosh the sky goes from light, to sunset, to night sky. Like a real sky

8 plot holes listed on imdb after 1st week, 8 "incorrectly regarded as goofs" a week later=people not paying attention

Edited by last stand 2.0, August 15, 2012 - 12:53 PM.

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#413 last stand 2.0

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 12:55 PM

definitely has holes. I didn't go in expecting I'd see the GOAT movie.

it was good enough for me.

my only gripe was it was too long.


Name them. I've only seen 1 from a person that in fact can be considered a plot hole. 1 after countless discussions on the movie. And that 1 is something I have yet to see anyone else notice.
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#414 Windu

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 01:20 PM

basically what fido is saying is that movies nowadays suck

Pau Gasol is GONE


#415 last stand 2.0

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 01:58 PM

basically what fido is saying is that movies nowadays suck


Which they don't. I hate that viewpoint. Classics are just that classics. There are plenty of movies nowadays that will be viewed as classics one day
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#416 fido

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 02:04 PM

Windu: The ratio of good movies to bad movies nowadays is definitely far worse than it has been in past decades. The amount of sequels, remakes, reboots and re-imaginings in film today is simply deplorable. It's a marker for the creativity gap that we're now sitting in the middle of. Music is much the same way. One beat, re-do the lyrics and melody. That's not creative, that's just the same junk in a different package. Sorry, that's not exciting, fresh or good to me. Every great once in a while a good / great movie comes rolling out, but recently (as in the last 10 years), it's been sparse - very, very sparse.

It's not like I'm alone in this assessment, or like I'm some bitter guy about it, it's the sad truth right now. It'll change (hopefully), the film industry (and entertainment in general) has gone through this before and has managed to find a way out. It just has been a prolonged period of creative bankruptcy this go 'round. Go on several website, magazines or books and look up lists of classic to the greatest films ever made and find me more than 3 that have come from this past decade. It won't happen.

And no, last stand, those are technical goofs, not plot holes. I am not going to sit here and go on a 3 page diatribe about the plot holes that DO exist in the film. I know you liked / loved it, but the bad news is they are there and I don't want to sit here and take the time to list them simply to convince you.

It's awfully tough to see what remakes or sequels will be thought of as classics in years to come. I'm not saying the entire decade is a wash, there are some good films / future classics, but for the most part this is a vapid point in movie history.

I am allowed to dislike the movie. I have no idea why people are so defensive about this film - it's to the point of ridiculous.

#417 kobedoinwork

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 02:18 PM

Lol name some you don't have to go into that much detail.

You have citizen kane as one of the best movies of all time but you complain about plot holes in the dark knight rises when citizen kane has the biggest plot holes of all time, no one was in the room to hear him say rosebud so how would any reporters know what to do

Lol name some you don't have to go into that much detail.

You have citizen kane as one of the best movies of all time but you complain about plot holes in the dark knight rises when citizen kane has the biggest plot holes of all time, no one was in the room to hear him say rosebud so how would any reporters know what to do

#418 fido

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 02:43 PM

A big plot hole or character flaw is the entire nuclear reactor from the energy source. If these guys are intent on destroying the city, they wouldn't send out a warning for the citizens and for the heroes that this is going to happen. The entire League Of Shadows idea in the first one is to operate under the guise of normalcy, to hide in the "shadows". It completely goes against the ideals of the organization to be so blatantly up front with their plans, announcing to everyone their intentions. Plot hole and character flaw.

Under the character flaws category, and leading into a small plot hole is the nature of the Catwoman. It's incredible how the Catwoman gives up her idealistic ways in the matter of 10 minutes in order to help the establishment that she is seemingly dead set against. She starts out as idealistic, warning Bruce Wayne that he's going to pay for all he's taken and the less portion he's given to others. The she drops the entire lifetime ideal (along with her mysteriously disappearing sidekick that was never explained in the slightest. Along that line, they set up the Catwoman, or they give the impression that she is in a relationship with this mystery girl. But hey, that didn't work with where we needed to go, so throw it out, nobody will question it) instantly. It's what happens when you've written yourself into a corner with a character. I've done it, I've seen other writers do it, and they don't get away with it. There's no reason that Nolan should suddenly be immune.

Miranda is a character that drops in from nowhere with no previous explanation. In order to move the film along (something that Nolan obviously had trouble doing, this thing is an hour too long) they throw in a quick post-sex scene, in order to give a conflict that first didn't need to be there and second, it is pointless. The plot hole there is what their previous relationship is. There is no explanation as to anything between them. This is yet another way to throw in a connection when it has been ignored previously. It's rushed, ridiculous and in the end them not being together wouldn't have affected the plot whatsoever.

From the absolutely laborious first 45 minutes to an hour to the absolutely rushed montage of Gotham falling apart, the audience has no grasp on how this new vigilante justice system developed (the whole walk on the ice garbage). What Nolan did is use a montage to speed up time (perfectly fine), but what he failed to do was establish in that montage any kind of setup for this new Gotham. We see the city being semi-torn apart to the new system being instantly set up. Their is a giant gap where we, as an audience, have no idea what has established this new order or why the city didn't collapse under the mayhem. They have access to military vehicles, military weapons, yet somehow they can't find a cop hiding in his apartment directly against a city street in the heart of the action. Conveniently the apartments with police heads in them are immune to the carnage - interesting.

The cops trapped in the tunnels is ridiculous as well. In this plot we led to believe that Bane and his minions are out to destroy Gotham, to bring down the empire, no matter the loss of life. yet for some unknown reason, they spare the cops rather than exterminating them. They keep them in underground safe and warm. And while this is going on, he's feeding them. We are told there are 3,000 police officers trapped. 3,000!! Yet there is food and water enough for all of them for 3 months. If you're going to tell me that one guy gave them all of that food (Joseph Godron-Levitt's character) then you have completely lost touch. Bane and his cohorts are keeping the one force that can stop them alive and well, safe and warm in the middle of winter.

These same cops also. somehow avert military weaponry and take down the people's army, which is now noticeably tiny. How can 3,000 cops, not armed at all take down a heavily armed (and supposedly angry) city full of people? It's a plot hole, like it or not - it;s a big one.

When Batman (Bruce Wayne) escaped the well prison after sit-ups, pull-ups and a punch to the back healed his broken spine 9 come on now), how in the world does he get back to Gotham within a day when we are told he's broke. He has no I.D., no money and no contacts anywhere in this desert. yet, he gets back safe and healthy, able to walk and ready to save the day. Plot hole!

Enough? Or do you want more, because there's plenty more.

The movie sucked.

#419 last stand 2.0

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 04:21 PM

A big plot hole or character flaw is the entire nuclear reactor from the energy source. If these guys are intent on destroying the city, they wouldn't send out a warning for the citizens and for the heroes that this is going to happen. The entire League Of Shadows idea in the first one is to operate under the guise of normalcy, to hide in the "shadows". It completely goes against the ideals of the organization to be so blatantly up front with their plans, announcing to everyone their intentions. Plot hole and character flaw.

Under the character flaws category, and leading into a small plot hole is the nature of the Catwoman. It's incredible how the Catwoman gives up her idealistic ways in the matter of 10 minutes in order to help the establishment that she is seemingly dead set against. She starts out as idealistic, warning Bruce Wayne that he's going to pay for all he's taken and the less portion he's given to others. The she drops the entire lifetime ideal (along with her mysteriously disappearing sidekick that was never explained in the slightest. Along that line, they set up the Catwoman, or they give the impression that she is in a relationship with this mystery girl. But hey, that didn't work with where we needed to go, so throw it out, nobody will question it) instantly. It's what happens when you've written yourself into a corner with a character. I've done it, I've seen other writers do it, and they don't get away with it. There's no reason that Nolan should suddenly be immune.

Miranda is a character that drops in from nowhere with no previous explanation. In order to move the film along (something that Nolan obviously had trouble doing, this thing is an hour too long) they throw in a quick post-sex scene, in order to give a conflict that first didn't need to be there and second, it is pointless. The plot hole there is what their previous relationship is. There is no explanation as to anything between them. This is yet another way to throw in a connection when it has been ignored previously. It's rushed, ridiculous and in the end them not being together wouldn't have affected the plot whatsoever.

From the absolutely laborious first 45 minutes to an hour to the absolutely rushed montage of Gotham falling apart, the audience has no grasp on how this new vigilante justice system developed (the whole walk on the ice garbage). What Nolan did is use a montage to speed up time (perfectly fine), but what he failed to do was establish in that montage any kind of setup for this new Gotham. We see the city being semi-torn apart to the new system being instantly set up. Their is a giant gap where we, as an audience, have no idea what has established this new order or why the city didn't collapse under the mayhem. They have access to military vehicles, military weapons, yet somehow they can't find a cop hiding in his apartment directly against a city street in the heart of the action. Conveniently the apartments with police heads in them are immune to the carnage - interesting.

The cops trapped in the tunnels is ridiculous as well. In this plot we led to believe that Bane and his minions are out to destroy Gotham, to bring down the empire, no matter the loss of life. yet for some unknown reason, they spare the cops rather than exterminating them. They keep them in underground safe and warm. And while this is going on, he's feeding them. We are told there are 3,000 police officers trapped. 3,000!! Yet there is food and water enough for all of them for 3 months. If you're going to tell me that one guy gave them all of that food (Joseph Godron-Levitt's character) then you have completely lost touch. Bane and his cohorts are keeping the one force that can stop them alive and well, safe and warm in the middle of winter.

These same cops also. somehow avert military weaponry and take down the people's army, which is now noticeably tiny. How can 3,000 cops, not armed at all take down a heavily armed (and supposedly angry) city full of people? It's a plot hole, like it or not - it;s a big one.

When Batman (Bruce Wayne) escaped the well prison after sit-ups, pull-ups and a punch to the back healed his broken spine 9 come on now), how in the world does he get back to Gotham within a day when we are told he's broke. He has no I.D., no money and no contacts anywhere in this desert. yet, he gets back safe and healthy, able to walk and ready to save the day. Plot hole!

Enough? Or do you want more, because there's plenty more.

The movie sucked.


the league of shadows does not exact its plans in normalcy. using a microwave emitter to release a toxin into the city of gotham throwing it into panic is hardly acting through normalcy. try again. not to mention both ras al ghul and dr. crane tell their plans to people as well as the police finding the toxin in the water supply. again not exactly acting through normalcy or hiding in the shadows.

also Bane and Talia are a more extreme version of the LOS. this is stated multiple times throughout the film. blatantly i might add.

catwoman struggles with ideals throughout because bruce the apparent epitome of her hatred is also the epitome of her hero. She hates the establishment but shows respect for batman fighting outside of the establishment. shown throughout the movie she toys with batman, enjoys batmans company, but ultimately wants to be free of her past. the look on her face when she gives up batman to bane says it all. she sees the error of her ways. then in the meeting with john blake she is on the verge of tears when blake brings up bruce. then catwoman sees the prisoners of gotham tearing up the city and again shows remorse and pain. even her partner who is in love with the new gotham asks "isn't this everything we wanted" and she simply shrugs and looks towards the camera in emotional pain. then she sees the little boy about to get beaten up over a stolen apple, beats the men up and says "never steal from someone you can't run away from". she has seen a world she thought she wanted and each time was surprised at how an unlawful world breeds pain and suffering. again shown throughout the movie. also catwoman has a partner? yes and yet each time she keeps her away from danger and also is not with her at all times. so if she keeps her out of danger why would she take her with her to help batman fight bane? logic would say she wont. this doesn't happen over 10 minutes this happens over the entire movie, especially once bane beats batman.

miranda tate does not drop out from nowhere. she is ras al ghuls daughter who michael caine and morgan freeman both acknowledge have been dealing with bruce and wayne enterprises for years. miranda is even on the board of wayne enterprises. she funded the bulding of the nuclear reactor. again this is 8 years after the dark knight. it is established that miranda and bruce have met several times after bruce's exodus from gotham. Bruce even remarks "she is a persistent one". Alfred and lucious also try to tell bruce that miranda is a perfect woman for him. again she didn't just appear. she was established as a character who existed in the universe in between the happenings of the dark knight and rises. Miranda is exacting her plan throughout the entire movie. She has sex with bruce to seal his trust after she has bane destroy wayne industries financially, she has bane funded by deggett which batman would be able to find out, knowing this bruce would turn to miranda and show her the nuclear reactor and its location that she knew he was hiding from her since bane kidnapped dr. pavel who helped build the reactor. again pay attention

bane never invades apartments. everyone but the rich are safe in their apartments. comissioner gordon even remarks to the sargent. "what did you do bury your uniform in the backyard". Bane let the people of gotham live their lives giving them hope the city was theirs. he trapped the police underground and put a man at every man hole where the police are underground. but the people are left just fine. the orphans aren't touched because Bane was creating an image that he was giving the city back to the people and taking it away from the rich. again explained through banes speech. he wasn't invading homes except the homes of the top 1% because he was avoiding the image of a destoryer and trying to portray the image of a liberator. "gotham this is the instrument of your liberation"

if he was just out for carnage from the beginning he would blow up the nuke from the beginning. he wanted to punish gotham. Batman is the representation of gotham. he is given hope and not killed but with the expectation to have his hope destroyed. the same goes for gotham. he wanted to people to feel free so he can take it away from them. exactly what he says to bruce he wants to do to him. Bane also tells bruce he is doing the same thing to gotham.

again Bane himself explains keeping the cops alive. its for the same reason he keeps bruce alive. bane wants them to watch the city burn with no way to stop him. he wants them to suffer for their crimes of putting men in jail. he wants them to sit and wait until the explosion knowing they couldn't help the people of gotham. Death is too easy. their punishment must be more severe. explained by bane himself.

Bane keeps the cops alive. he feeds them and sends them supplies. this is shown throughout the movie. he drops crates of supplies. he wants them alive. Again explained in the film. Blake has nothing to do with them being alive. all he does is keep them updated on whats happening up above.

Bane didnt think they could escape concrete because the only man that could save them was in the pit that no man had ever escaped from.

also police did have weapons. they were shooting back at the otherside after batman had EMP'ed the tumblers. both sides were getting mowed down until in close battle. Should there have been more carnage from bullets? probably but was their no carnage? no. there were several dead bodies in the street. so either you werent watching or chose to ignore that fact.

ah the old how did bruce get back to gotham. the easiest of them all. if you have seen batman begins you would know that bruce throws away his wallet and ID and hops on a boat to travel to the otherside of the world and learn the way of the criminal. he travels from country to country doing this without any money or ID. now because its a new movie he cannot do the same. interesting

i can do this all day without breaking a sweat,
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#420 Windu

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Posted August 15, 2012 - 04:40 PM

I've said this before...

But sometimes people are too critical of movies. Comic book movies plots, storylines, etc are already predetermined.

Fido, you are much older than most of us so your definition of classic/good movies is different (I've never even heard of some of those movies you listed)

I'm not a batman fanboy at all (I'm a marvel guy myself) but I thought the movie was enjoyable and def worth the price of admission.IIRC, you said you enjoyed The Avengers more (As I did), correct?

I agree, there are some terrible movies released nowadays but I don't think TDKR belongs in that category...not even close.

I don't go into Marvel/DC Comics movies expecting to see Denzel Washington-like performances; I expect these movies to be as close as possible to the original writing and I expect to be entertained.

Pau Gasol is GONE





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