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Jerry West: (Kobe's Teammates) just are not mentally tough


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#21 ReaListik

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Posted September 17, 2008 - 10:35 PM

How could you think that Gasol will ever be tough enough when we haven't seen him play under "normal" circumstances? He had an injury last year and he was out of position. You under estimate how much that can throw a person off. Give Pau a little longer and I believe we will see that mental edge that all are looking for. Remember, physical toughness and mental toughness are COMPLETELY different things. They are not related.


What I was referring to is that it shouldn't matter what position you play, your toughness should be shown in every facet of your game, regardless of if you're playing in your favorite position or not. That's what you get paid for. That's what real versatility is all about.

Although, for the record I have seen him play in his natural position and display the same level of weakness. I'm a fan of Pau, and I am very thankful he's with this team.

Kobe nailed it on the head when he said, "If you're walkin' down a dark alley and you see Kendrick Perkins or Pau Gasol, you're going to head in Pau's direction." That to me sums it up right there. It's not in Pau's nature to be tough, unless he undergoes a few tweaks in his personality voluntarily.

By tough, I mean both mentally and physically.

Edited by ReaListik, September 17, 2008 - 10:37 PM.

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#22 A_V_R

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Posted September 17, 2008 - 11:00 PM

I dont think every single player on a championship team has to be mentally tough. The leaders of course, a large majority certainly but not all. Theres always going to be your slava medvedenkos and your antoine walkers.

#23 netlord

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Posted September 17, 2008 - 11:36 PM

If you're walkin' down a dark alley and you see Kendrick Perkins or Pau Gasol, you're going to head in Pau's direction." That to me sums it up right there. It's not in Pau's nature to be tough, unless he undergoes a few tweaks in his personality voluntarily.


In this case we are talking physically tough.
I think he is mentally tough, he always wants to win, being in Memphis for so long affected him greatly...
He has been playing basketball for many years, I doubt he is mentally weak, but I am sure he will play better next season.
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#24 Beethovenite

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Posted September 18, 2008 - 01:23 AM

In this case we are talking physically tough.
I think he is mentally tough, he always wants to win, being in Memphis for so long affected him greatly...
He has been playing basketball for many years, I doubt he is mentally weak, but I am sure he will play better next season.


I have to agree with netlord here, from observing Pau this season it is quite clear that he is an intelligent basketball player and has the mental toughness to play smart basketball... perhaps he does shy away a bit physically... but worry not, because Bynum will be back in the paint this season! :hysterical:

And with age and the experience, Bynum will become a force to be reckoned with... if he isn't already...

Edited by Beethovenite, September 18, 2008 - 01:24 AM.


#25 Nirvana

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Posted September 18, 2008 - 05:10 AM

In this case we are talking physically tough.
I think he is mentally tough, he always wants to win, being in Memphis for so long affected him greatly...
He has been playing basketball for many years, I doubt he is mentally weak, but I am sure he will play better next season.


Exactly. I'd be willing to bet there were not too many people more upset than Pau after we lost the Finals.
Kurt Cobain - "Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are."

#26 ReaListik

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Posted September 18, 2008 - 10:34 AM

We will have to agree to disagree. The coaches on this staff have pointed out how soft Gasol was, and that he didn't have the mental strength quite as much as was needed in the Finals. He does have more than other players on this team, but is still on a level of weakness that needs improvement.

As posted in my post before, by tough I mean both mentally and physically.
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#27 netlord

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Posted September 18, 2008 - 10:41 AM

We will have to agree to disagree. The coaches on this staff have pointed out how soft Gasol was, and that he didn't have the mental strength quite as much as was needed in the Finals. He does have more than other players on this team, but is still on a level of weakness that needs improvement.

As posted in my post before, by tough I mean both mentally and physically.



Lakers coaching staff? Do you have any links saved?
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#28 GinzyVee

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Posted September 18, 2008 - 10:59 AM

Gasol will have is reign of terror...............just let him adjust more to the Lakers..

#29 ReaListik

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Posted September 18, 2008 - 12:03 PM

When asked about Gasol being soft, "That would be a reputation that Pau came to us with," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "That's one of the reasons perhaps we were fortunate enough to get him ... that perhaps he was not a center, he was more of a forward type of player ... he wasn't tough enough or powerful enough to be a center."

Again, I'm not attacking Pau Gasol. I think the Lakers are very fortunate to have him, but he has been soft in the past, and he is soft right now. In the OP, Tex Winter said that the difference between Jordan's teammates and Bryant's teammates is that Bryant's are not mentally tough enough. That seems to point out that he's referring to all of his teammates. That's when guys like Paxson and Kerr were cited as being able to fight off the pressure in tough situations to knock down big shots and make crucial plays to win the game.

I agree with Phil that Pau playing out of position caught him off guard, but that's a particular weakness that Pau needs to work on. That's what you get paid the big bucks to do, that's what makes you a professional. You have to be versatile in this game to make a significant impact for your team if you are one of the main options, which Pau is. Pau showcased that he's vulnerably weak physically against a brute force like Kendrick Perkins. That's ok, but he needs to work on it, and he needs to get stronger. Part of that is a mental game, there's a lot of jawing that goes on on the court and you have to not become intimidated by the guy you're matched up with.

Fortunately, the Lakers have Andrew Bynum that can definitely help out with the defensive boards and inside defense.
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#30 netlord

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Posted September 18, 2008 - 11:31 PM

When asked about Gasol being soft, "That would be a reputation that Pau came to us with," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "That's one of the reasons perhaps we were fortunate enough to get him ... that perhaps he was not a center, he was more of a forward type of player ... he wasn't tough enough or powerful enough to be a center."

Again, I'm not attacking Pau Gasol. I think the Lakers are very fortunate to have him, but he has been soft in the past, and he is soft right now. In the OP, Tex Winter said that the difference between Jordan's teammates and Bryant's teammates is that Bryant's are not mentally tough enough. That seems to point out that he's referring to all of his teammates. That's when guys like Paxson and Kerr were cited as being able to fight off the pressure in tough situations to knock down big shots and make crucial plays to win the game.

I agree with Phil that Pau playing out of position caught him off guard, but that's a particular weakness that Pau needs to work on. That's what you get paid the big bucks to do, that's what makes you a professional. You have to be versatile in this game to make a significant impact for your team if you are one of the main options, which Pau is. Pau showcased that he's vulnerably weak physically against a brute force like Kendrick Perkins. That's ok, but he needs to work on it, and he needs to get stronger. Part of that is a mental game, there's a lot of jawing that goes on on the court and you have to not become intimidated by the guy you're matched up with.

Fortunately, the Lakers have Andrew Bynum that can definitely help out with the defensive boards and inside defense.


ReaListik I fell what you are saying,but.
His problem is that he hasn't got a body of a center, it's okay to say he has to be versatile, but he is not going to be able to go against Perkins again, that has to be Bynum's job. He isn't going to be able to build that kinda strenght. He is a F and an "emergency" center, his body is built so, and as you said Bynum will fill the spot as the true center.
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#31 GCMD

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Posted September 19, 2008 - 12:33 AM

In this case we are talking physically tough.
I think he is mentally tough, he always wants to win, being in Memphis for so long affected him greatly...
He has been playing basketball for many years, I doubt he is mentally weak, but I am sure he will play better next season.



The Playoffs are about physicality...it's a man's game. So the point is valid. Pau can't compete with Perkins of KG physically.

#32 netlord

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Posted September 19, 2008 - 01:30 AM

The Playoffs are about physicality...it's a man's game. So the point is valid. Pau can't compete with Perkins of KG physically.



Do you mean Perkins or KG?

Edited by netlord, September 19, 2008 - 01:32 AM.

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#33 GCMD

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Posted September 21, 2008 - 11:21 PM

Do you mean Perkins or KG?



Yeah...that too... http://lakernation.c...tyle_emoticons/default/cool.gif

#34 Nirvana

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Posted September 23, 2008 - 08:33 AM

The Playoffs are about physicality...it's a man's game. So the point is valid. Pau can't compete with Perkins of KG physically.


Last time I checked, Pau did a good job defensively on KG in the Finals.
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#35 kobynum

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Posted November 26, 2008 - 07:31 PM

these comments have less baring now. How many of you guys still agree with the things you wrote?
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers

#36 LoLo

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Posted November 27, 2008 - 07:43 AM

Count me in... Jerry West just aint mentally tough! :P

#37 BadScooter

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Posted November 27, 2008 - 04:11 PM

these comments have less baring now.


:looks at calendar:

Sorry, I thought for a second that it was June 2009 and we'd won the championship already. I got confused.

#38 kobynum

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Posted November 27, 2008 - 04:50 PM

i just mean with being a physically soft team. We seem to be physically stronger with people moving to natural positions, but also with the addition of Ariza. and I think a tough loss made the team tougher. And jerry west could have gave Fisher some props, his toughness can never be called into question
Again - this team, as currently constructed won't make it out of the second round of the playoffs, let alone the West or win the Finals.---fido on 2011 Lakers




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