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#41 LakerFanInOmaha!

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 07:30 AM

I don't get the big deal with browsers. You can the surf the net with both. I use IE because that is what comes with windows and I know everyhting is compatible with it. I see no difference.
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#42 Weps

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 07:33 AM

:badmood: :badmood: :badmood:

You see no differences between a browser built and projected in the mesozoic of the telecommunication era
one of the best browser out there?

:badmood: :badmood: :badmood:
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#43 lyk13

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 08:50 AM

Weps, if you really wanna argue, throw the specifics out.




#44 LakerFanInOmaha!

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 11:35 AM

:badmood: :badmood: :badmood:

You see no differences between a browser built and projected in the mesozoic of the telecommunication era
one of the best browser out there?

:badmood: :badmood: :badmood:



:nah:
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#45 Weezy

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 11:43 AM

I don't get the big deal with browsers. You can the surf the net with both. I use IE because that is what comes with windows and I know everyhting is compatible with it. I see no difference.


The difference is IE sucks, Firefox has more features, better ad-blocking and more. And for me it actually seems to be faster than IE.
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#46 Weps

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 03:45 PM

Weps, if you really wanna argue, throw the specifics out.


Here I am
:shifty:


Exibit A) Internet Explorer is slow. It's not a matter of your pc's ram, your pc's processor or whatever. It's just SLOW.
The rendering engine is slow. The Javascript rendering is 1.6 times slower than Firefox 3. The HTML rendering is 2 times slower than Firefox 3. The CSS rendering is 1 time slower than Firefox. So, assuming by the tests that Firefox run an Html page in 3.5 seconds, Internet Explorer 7 will use almost 8 seconds to load it.
And I'm not talking about the 6 which is basically the antichrist of the Internet who can't even load a simple Javascript code without showing you a little pop up about the risk you're assuming running a Javascript. On a website.

Internet Explorer is slow because is heavier. Yes it is. He has a lot of compatibility because he has already everything implemented, which magically makes it heavier. The core is heavier, because is not written in Gecko or in WebKit, the UI is heavier. So, all this xtra weight is gonna go on your RAM and is gonna add some more seconds on the slow rendering. I've seen the ram used by Firefox with 8 tabs open and Internet Explorer with 4. Firefox was still lighter, even with the Firebug plugin installed and 4 more tabs opened.


Exibit B) Internet Explorer is not W3C Standards Compliant. Internet Explorer has developed terrifically after the failure of Netscape, and basically Microsoft did what the [expletive] they want, because they didn't have any opponent on the browser market. The W3C standard is the basic into the Web, everything is based on rules explained by that organisation, and Internet Explorer simply don't respect that. You can check it using the Acid3 test. Firefox has a good 71/100. Chrome has 74/100. Safari has 100/100 and Internet Explorer never goes above 20/100.
This is bad for web designers like me, but this is bad for users like you, because you're not surfin the web with the appropriate vehicle. Is like drivin on a freeway with a ship. Surfin on the sea with a train and try to fly with a car. It's not correct.
Didn't surprise me that since the birth of Firefox, Internet Explorer has lost an incredible 22% on the market, and he still decreasing its presence on the web. For the first time this year, he's under the 70%, so fortunately, the 30% of the users don't use anymore this [expletive]in software.
Be standards compliant is good as you can see.


Exibit C) You can't do nothing on it. No developers plugins, no extension, no control. If you want to disable a Javascript who freeze your Pc, because Internet Explorer literally explodes when it meets Javascript code, you can't.
If you want to customize it, if you wanna manage it, you can't. All you can do is surf the [expletive]in web and keep installing that god damn toolbars which are full of viruses like an outskirt slut.

Don't get me wrong. There are plugins for Internet Explorer. Which basically increase the weight of the Software by 10% each, they didn't work in a good way and basically they're useless.


Exibit D) It's not safe.
Keep in mind, everytime you use it, that you're using a not updated software, I don't care if you use the version 6 or 7. It's simply not updated. Every single hacker knows every single flaw of this software, which wasn't projected to fight the viruses. Everytime you download something, eveytime you're visiting a page, everytime you install a toolbar, there is something for Internet Explorer. That's pretty sure. Every new year, Windows is threatened by thousand, hundred thousands new viruses, and they're all in the Internet.
And you're using a 4 years old software to get into the Net? Man, is like [expletive]in with a whore with a 4 years old wallet-condom! Why you keep using it? Can you use a 3-4 years computer right now? Not a Mac, a PC. 3-4 years old means go back to the 2005-2006. So 833 Mhz - 1,3 Gz processor with less than a giga of Ram. Damn, Vista can't even run on this kind of computers.
It's the same thing. You're using an old software, which was badly developed, not updated and not standard compliants. While the concurrence keeps improving, with faster technologies, great developers teams, good security updates and better technologies supported.
And yeah, since Internet Explorer 6 ( 2004 ), Apple has released 3 main versions of Safari, Mozilla 3.5 main versions, Opera 2 or 4 ( I can't remember at this hour) and a lot of new browsers are born.
Internet Explorer? Just 1. Internet Explorer 7.


I think I made my point.
Hope you can understand it.
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#47 lyk13

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 04:25 PM

Good, at least because this is a X or Y thread, some arguments thrown in can be good for comparison.

a. I agree with the tabs opening. Ever since 8, opening 1 tab takes like 3 secs for it to init. Not sure why. =/

b. That's new, not W3C compliant!? O.o

c. Yeah the javascript is a pain. Customization, youngsters probably like to, but elderly ones prob not. :lol: And seriously, do not install toolbars. -_- They are like an alternative way for ppl to hack through that.

d. IE has been so exposed is also because of its prime start to the browsers in the early years. As it WAS the main browser to use, its infrastructure and everything has been thoroughly exposed. Since they have the information, they keep it on this browser for vulnerabilities. I believe this is the case, not that firefox ain't at all secured. Every program can be exposed. It just takes how big a community is to expose it and spread it.

P.S. You commenting as if I am on the IE side...that I feel from the way you mention that post. But I'm already on the FF side, IE as an alternative if something really goes wrong.




#48 Eternal

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Posted August 06, 2009 - 07:24 PM

Here I am
:shifty:


Exibit A) Internet Explorer is slow. It's not a matter of your pc's ram, your pc's processor or whatever. It's just SLOW.
The rendering engine is slow. The Javascript rendering is 1.6 times slower than Firefox 3. The HTML rendering is 2 times slower than Firefox 3. The CSS rendering is 1 time slower than Firefox. So, assuming by the tests that Firefox run an Html page in 3.5 seconds, Internet Explorer 7 will use almost 8 seconds to load it.
And I'm not talking about the 6 which is basically the antichrist of the Internet who can't even load a simple Javascript code without showing you a little pop up about the risk you're assuming running a Javascript. On a website.

Internet Explorer is slow because is heavier. Yes it is. He has a lot of compatibility because he has already everything implemented, which magically makes it heavier. The core is heavier, because is not written in Gecko or in WebKit, the UI is heavier. So, all this xtra weight is gonna go on your RAM and is gonna add some more seconds on the slow rendering. I've seen the ram used by Firefox with 8 tabs open and Internet Explorer with 4. Firefox was still lighter, even with the Firebug plugin installed and 4 more tabs opened.


Exibit B) Internet Explorer is not W3C Standards Compliant. Internet Explorer has developed terrifically after the failure of Netscape, and basically Microsoft did what the [expletive] they want, because they didn't have any opponent on the browser market. The W3C standard is the basic into the Web, everything is based on rules explained by that organisation, and Internet Explorer simply don't respect that. You can check it using the Acid3 test. Firefox has a good 71/100. Chrome has 74/100. Safari has 100/100 and Internet Explorer never goes above 20/100.
This is bad for web designers like me, but this is bad for users like you, because you're not surfin the web with the appropriate vehicle. Is like drivin on a freeway with a ship. Surfin on the sea with a train and try to fly with a car. It's not correct.
Didn't surprise me that since the birth of Firefox, Internet Explorer has lost an incredible 22% on the market, and he still decreasing its presence on the web. For the first time this year, he's under the 70%, so fortunately, the 30% of the users don't use anymore this [expletive]in software.
Be standards compliant is good as you can see.


Exibit C) You can't do nothing on it. No developers plugins, no extension, no control. If you want to disable a Javascript who freeze your Pc, because Internet Explorer literally explodes when it meets Javascript code, you can't.
If you want to customize it, if you wanna manage it, you can't. All you can do is surf the [expletive]in web and keep installing that god damn toolbars which are full of viruses like an outskirt slut.

Don't get me wrong. There are plugins for Internet Explorer. Which basically increase the weight of the Software by 10% each, they didn't work in a good way and basically they're useless.


Exibit D) It's not safe.
Keep in mind, everytime you use it, that you're using a not updated software, I don't care if you use the version 6 or 7. It's simply not updated. Every single hacker knows every single flaw of this software, which wasn't projected to fight the viruses. Everytime you download something, eveytime you're visiting a page, everytime you install a toolbar, there is something for Internet Explorer. That's pretty sure. Every new year, Windows is threatened by thousand, hundred thousands new viruses, and they're all in the Internet.
And you're using a 4 years old software to get into the Net? Man, is like [expletive]in with a whore with a 4 years old wallet-condom! Why you keep using it? Can you use a 3-4 years computer right now? Not a Mac, a PC. 3-4 years old means go back to the 2005-2006. So 833 Mhz - 1,3 Gz processor with less than a giga of Ram. Damn, Vista can't even run on this kind of computers.
It's the same thing. You're using an old software, which was badly developed, not updated and not standard compliants. While the concurrence keeps improving, with faster technologies, great developers teams, good security updates and better technologies supported.
And yeah, since Internet Explorer 6 ( 2004 ), Apple has released 3 main versions of Safari, Mozilla 3.5 main versions, Opera 2 or 4 ( I can't remember at this hour) and a lot of new browsers are born.
Internet Explorer? Just 1. Internet Explorer 7.


I think I made my point.
Hope you can understand it.
Good night.

Just so you know IE upgraded to IE8 now (as I see you kept mentioning IE7) and it's much faster, almost as fast if not as fast as Firefox 3.5

If people are looking for speed though, Google Chrome is hands down the fastest browser.

#49 Weps

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Posted August 07, 2009 - 01:01 AM

Yeah I know it.
I'm a Web Designer, I know the existence of Internet Explorer 8 since it was only a rumor.
Well, I tried it and guess what, nothing really impressive.
From the stats, Internet Explorer 8 is not so diffused right now and it's not even tested on a big market so he doesn't belong in my argumentation, like Chrome.



Yeah, he improved in speed ( and this is relative, the rendering engine ain't improve that much, Gecko and WebKit browsers are still faster) but Firefox isn't all about more speed.
Firefox is the slower one of the IE opponents.
IE8 problems still the same as its predecessors: it's no standard compliant, the architecture of the software is full of bugs which are linked together with the Windows bugs and now there's another big problem:
The Comatibility View button. Trust me, I see site been destroyed in a minor way by a Turkish hackers attack, where they found a hole in the system and put Turkish flags and little MIDIs on every site.

BTW, Internet Explorer 8 is cooler than the other 2, No Way, but Firefox still have more extension and more possibilities for manage the Web and don't let the Web manage you, meanwhile Safari, Opera and Chrome still have more speed and better performances and innovative features.
Why would you use a browser who isn't in the top 5 when you can use one of those?
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#50 Weps

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Posted August 07, 2009 - 01:06 AM

b. That's new, not W3C compliant!? O.o



Again, it's a generic you, I'm not talking to you like you are the IE developers representative
:lol:


Whatever, yes, Internet Explorer is not compliant with W3C Standards.
Just try this little test:
http://acid3.acidtests.org/
or even this one:
http://acid2.acidtests.org/#top
with all of your browsers.
:lol:

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#51 Dr.PhilUpOnU

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Posted August 07, 2009 - 01:09 AM

you know whats messed up, I was getting my Distance Education account fixed the other day and I told the tech I was using firefox and he laughed at me and said only geeks use ff.. :nah:

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#52 Weps

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Posted August 07, 2009 - 01:12 AM

Geeks use Chrome or Opera, not Firefox, which is used by a 22% of the Net users.
22%!
Do you know what that mean?
It's A LOT.
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#53 lyk13

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Posted August 07, 2009 - 08:00 AM

No matter what, the thing is that, any web browser shouldn't be 'recommended' as not everyone understand their pros and cons or their stuffs. The user him/herself will have to try out the browsers and come to a conclusion him/herself.

Simple users would just understand it as a window to surf the internet. But in any case, geeks/nerds/ IT know-alls etc. etc. use whatever they feel they are comfortable with.




#54 Eternal

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Posted August 07, 2009 - 08:30 PM

Yeah I know it.
I'm a Web Designer, I know the existence of Internet Explorer 8 since it was only a rumor.
Well, I tried it and guess what, nothing really impressive.
From the stats, Internet Explorer 8 is not so diffused right now and it's not even tested on a big market so he doesn't belong in my argumentation, like Chrome.



Yeah, he improved in speed ( and this is relative, the rendering engine ain't improve that much, Gecko and WebKit browsers are still faster) but Firefox isn't all about more speed.
Firefox is the slower one of the IE opponents.
IE8 problems still the same as its predecessors: it's no standard compliant, the architecture of the software is full of bugs which are linked together with the Windows bugs and now there's another big problem:
The Comatibility View button. Trust me, I see site been destroyed in a minor way by a Turkish hackers attack, where they found a hole in the system and put Turkish flags and little MIDIs on every site.

BTW, Internet Explorer 8 is cooler than the other 2, No Way, but Firefox still have more extension and more possibilities for manage the Web and don't let the Web manage you, meanwhile Safari, Opera and Chrome still have more speed and better performances and innovative features.
Why would you use a browser who isn't in the top 5 when you can use one of those?
^_^

I don't personally use IE though. I use Google Chrome, although I do switch to Firefox from time to time.

Google Chrome crashes a lot less then Firefox and I just prefer the interface compared to Firefox as it has a cleaner design.

Edited by Eternal, August 07, 2009 - 10:40 PM.


#55 lyk13

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Posted August 08, 2009 - 12:22 AM

Chrome to me, I dun like the interface. Think I mentioned this somewhere before :lol: The thing that drew me from IE to FF is the tabs. THat was before IE 8 beta came out. I switched over when IE8 beta soon released...or maybe I dl-ed IE8 beta, felt it to be abit lackluster and thus used FF instead. :lol:




#56 Eternal

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Posted August 08, 2009 - 11:57 AM

Chrome to me, I dun like the interface. Think I mentioned this somewhere before :lol: The thing that drew me from IE to FF is the tabs. THat was before IE 8 beta came out. I switched over when IE8 beta soon released...or maybe I dl-ed IE8 beta, felt it to be abit lackluster and thus used FF instead. :lol:

What part of the interface don't you like for Chrome just wondering? If your a title header guy I can see your point. I prefer the Chrome interface, because I like my screen for the most part to be full screen almost for the site, and not cluttered with other extensions etc. Which is why the tabs on top is so nice in Chrome as that gets rid of a whole extra row for the title header.

Downloads section of Chrome is also very nice. Don't have to have another window open for all your downloads, unless you want to add Firefox's extension.

#57 lyk13

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Posted August 08, 2009 - 08:22 PM

What part of the interface don't you like for Chrome just wondering? If your a title header guy I can see your point. I prefer the Chrome interface, because I like my screen for the most part to be full screen almost for the site, and not cluttered with other extensions etc. Which is why the tabs on top is so nice in Chrome as that gets rid of a whole extra row for the title header.

Downloads section of Chrome is also very nice. Don't have to have another window open for all your downloads, unless you want to add Firefox's extension.


*Disclaimer* Minimal exposure to Chrome

Yeah the title, and the edgy tabs. I'm a rounded guy kinda...:lol:

I used to like full screen in IE, firefox hand't got around to using F11. I do agree in some aspects without the title it be better. But it probably just comes to how I use the browser

My FF window besides the window has the address bar, my tab favourites and tabs, I'm all good.

Yeah I got an FF extension to put it at the bottom of my window.

I mean, ultimately it's all flexibility for the user, so he/she chooses which one is best suited for his/her browsing experience and ease. That is why if the user chooses IE, but later FF, we cannot discredit him/her because IE suits him/her earlier, then when he/she chooses FF later, it helps allevate things and make it even more easier.




#58 ace™

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Posted September 25, 2009 - 07:39 AM

i use firefox. been using it for years. gets better and better every time.

#59 MadSci24

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Posted September 29, 2009 - 01:03 AM

firefox
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#60 Lords of the Rings

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Posted September 29, 2009 - 07:08 PM

Here I am
:shifty:


Exibit A) Internet Explorer is slow. It's not a matter of your pc's ram, your pc's processor or whatever. It's just SLOW.
The rendering engine is slow. The Javascript rendering is 1.6 times slower than Firefox 3. The HTML rendering is 2 times slower than Firefox 3. The CSS rendering is 1 time slower than Firefox. So, assuming by the tests that Firefox run an Html page in 3.5 seconds, Internet Explorer 7 will use almost 8 seconds to load it.
And I'm not talking about the 6 which is basically the antichrist of the Internet who can't even load a simple Javascript code without showing you a little pop up about the risk you're assuming running a Javascript. On a website.

Internet Explorer is slow because is heavier. Yes it is. He has a lot of compatibility because he has already everything implemented, which magically makes it heavier. The core is heavier, because is not written in Gecko or in WebKit, the UI is heavier. So, all this xtra weight is gonna go on your RAM and is gonna add some more seconds on the slow rendering. I've seen the ram used by Firefox with 8 tabs open and Internet Explorer with 4. Firefox was still lighter, even with the Firebug plugin installed and 4 more tabs opened.

Exibit B) Internet Explorer is not W3C Standards Compliant. Internet Explorer has developed terrifically after the failure of Netscape, and basically Microsoft did what the [expletive] they want, because they didn't have any opponent on the browser market. The W3C standard is the basic into the Web, everything is based on rules explained by that organisation, and Internet Explorer simply don't respect that. You can check it using the Acid3 test. Firefox has a good 71/100. Chrome has 74/100. Safari has 100/100 and Internet Explorer never goes above 20/100.
This is bad for web designers like me, but this is bad for users like you, because you're not surfin the web with the appropriate vehicle. Is like drivin on a freeway with a ship. Surfin on the sea with a train and try to fly with a car. It's not correct.
Didn't surprise me that since the birth of Firefox, Internet Explorer has lost an incredible 22% on the market, and he still decreasing its presence on the web. For the first time this year, he's under the 70%, so fortunately, the 30% of the users don't use anymore this [expletive]in software.
Be standards compliant is good as you can see.


Exibit C) You can't do nothing on it. No developers plugins, no extension, no control. If you want to disable a Javascript who freeze your Pc, because Internet Explorer literally explodes when it meets Javascript code, you can't.
If you want to customize it, if you wanna manage it, you can't. All you can do is surf the [expletive]in web and keep installing that god damn toolbars which are full of viruses like an outskirt slut.

Don't get me wrong. There are plugins for Internet Explorer. Which basically increase the weight of the Software by 10% each, they didn't work in a good way and basically they're useless.


Exibit D) It's not safe.
Keep in mind, everytime you use it, that you're using a not updated software, I don't care if you use the version 6 or 7. It's simply not updated. Every single hacker knows every single flaw of this software, which wasn't projected to fight the viruses. Everytime you download something, eveytime you're visiting a page, everytime you install a toolbar, there is something for Internet Explorer. That's pretty sure. Every new year, Windows is threatened by thousand, hundred thousands new viruses, and they're all in the Internet.
And you're using a 4 years old software to get into the Net? Man, is like [expletive]in with a whore with a 4 years old wallet-condom! Why you keep using it? Can you use a 3-4 years computer right now? Not a Mac, a PC. 3-4 years old means go back to the 2005-2006. So 833 Mhz - 1,3 Gz processor with less than a giga of Ram. Damn, Vista can't even run on this kind of computers.
It's the same thing. You're using an old software, which was badly developed, not updated and not standard compliants. While the concurrence keeps improving, with faster technologies, great developers teams, good security updates and better technologies supported.
And yeah, since Internet Explorer 6 ( 2004 ), Apple has released 3 main versions of Safari, Mozilla 3.5 main versions, Opera 2 or 4 ( I can't remember at this hour) and a lot of new browsers are born.
Internet Explorer? Just 1. Internet Explorer 7.


I think I made my point.
Hope you can understand it.
Good night.





Thanks Dude,
I really appreciated your descriptions and down home explanations. I switched to Firefox about a year ago.........and now I know why.
Good read

Edited by Lords of the Rings, September 29, 2009 - 07:09 PM.

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