73 replies to this topic

[Grandpa Herman]

How can you leave out such big parts of players game out of a comparison?

Athleticism and Build mean everything when a player utilizes them as effectively as Jordan did. His whole game for the early part of his career was based upon his athleticism, not his shooting ability. Sure, he had a nice shot, but it can't be compared to his shot in the latter stages of his career.

Because it's weak. As far as I'm concerned, every player can run, jump, and shoot.

You have to be more specific with examples of how Jordan's athletic build gave him an advantage that Kobe doesn't have. It's not enough to say "well Jordan had huge hands."

Players don't make excuses for how their built. If Larry Bird didn't play as well as Magic he didn't say it was because Magic had more physical abilities.

It's a whiny type of argument. If you compared who was better between players and included their physical attributes the upper hand would go to whoever you thought was blessed with less every time.

At the end of the day performance is what's important. That should be the focus.

[revgen]

lol, the only team who used "the Jordan Rules" was Detroit. Jordan shot over 50% more than once in his career. Why don't you look THAT up on google.

Detroit invented the Jordan Rules. Teams have been using variations of the "Jordan Rules" concept to combat "Jordanesque" scorers ever since.

Edited by revgen, July 21, 2009 - 07:20 PM.

[Grandpa Herman]

Detroit invented the Jordan Rules. Teams have been using variations of the "Jordan Rules" concept to combat "Jordanesque" scorers ever since.

Jordan shot over 50% even after he finally figured out how to beat it so what exactly is your point?

[L.A.K.E.R]

Because it's weak. As far as I'm concerned, every player can run, jump, and shoot.

You have to be more specific with examples of how Jordan's athletic build gave him an advantage that Kobe doesn't have. It's not enough to say "well Jordan had huge hands."

Players don't make excuses for how their built. If Larry Bird didn't play as well as Magic he didn't say it was because Magic had more physical abilities.

It's a whiny type of argument. If you compared who was better between players and included their physical attributes the upper hand would go to whoever you thought was blessed with less every time.

At the end of the day performance is what's important. That should be the focus.

I suppose you're correct, but you can't deny that Jordan's build and athleticism made things easier for him in terms of his overall effectiveness. As great as he was skillwise, Jordan was equally as gifted an athlete which gives him a clear-cut advantage. Performance is important, but it's the details (time period, defenses, skillsets, etc.) that make the difference when comparing careers/stats/whatever.

As far as the Jordan/Kobe debate goes, I don't really care. They're both in the top 5 of all time to me.

[Mo Rings]

And I Can't Drive 55!

[last stand 2.0]

my hope is kobe reduces his scoring but increases his shooting percentages and assist totals

i would love a stat line of 24ppg 6rpg 8apg shooting 50% and 40%

that would be great

[KobehastheMagic]

Jordan was DPOY the same year he won MVP. Jordan also had a great post up game. Kobe seldom posts up. Jordan also was the better driver as he was more explosive to the hoop.

And lebron was runner up this year. Is Lebron anywhere near as good of a defender as Kobe? No. The DPOY is a hype award based on blocks and steals. Jordan wasn't even the best defender on his team when he won it. Jordan did have a great post game. i never said he didn't. Kobe has an equally great post game. He just doesn't get to use it as often because he played with Shaq and now Pau.

[KobehastheMagic]

Give me a thumbs down all you want. It's the truth.

[KobehastheMagic]

my hope is kobe reduces his scoring but increases his shooting percentages and assist totals

i would love a stat line of 24ppg 6rpg 8apg shooting 50% and 40%

that would be great

Him averaging 8 assists would mean that the offense is not running well. You don't average 8 assists in the triangle.

[cuguabunga]

And lebron was runner up this year. Is Lebron anywhere near as good of a defender as Kobe? No. The DPOY is a hype award based on blocks and steals. Jordan wasn't even the best defender on his team when he won it. Jordan did have a great post game. i never said he didn't. Kobe has an equally great post game. He just doesn't get to use it as often because he played with Shaq and now Pau.

Who was??? Oakley???
Jordan +200 steals and +100 blocks, same season, record for a guard.

More stats.
--------Bulls fg%----MJ fg%
84-85 - .500--------.515
85-86 - .481--------.495
86-87 - .473--------.482
87-88 - .490--------.535
88-89 - .495--------.538
89-90 - .498--------.526
90-91 - .510--------.539
91-92 - .508--------.519
92-93 - .482--------.495
94-95 - .476--------.411
95-96 - .478--------.495
96-97 - .473--------.486
97-98 - .451--------.465


-----Lakers fg%-------Kobe fg%
96-97 - .454----------.438
97-98 - .481----------.428
98-99 - .468----------.465
99-00 - .459----------.468
00-01 - .465----------.464
01-02 - .461----------.469
02-03 - .451---------.451
03-04 - .454----------.438
04-05 - .437----------.433
05-06 - .453----------.450
06-07 - .466----------.463
07-08 - .476----------.459
08-09 - .474----------.467

[KobehastheMagic]

Who was??? Oakley???
Jordan +200 steals and +100 blocks, same season, record for a guard.

More stats.
--------Bulls fg%----MJ fg%
84-85 - .500--------.515
85-86 - .481--------.495
86-87 - .473--------.482
87-88 - .490--------.535
88-89 - .495--------.538
89-90 - .498--------.526
90-91 - .510--------.539
91-92 - .508--------.519
92-93 - .482--------.495
94-95 - .476--------.411
95-96 - .478--------.495
96-97 - .473--------.486
97-98 - .451--------.465


-----Lakers fg%-------Kobe fg%
96-97 - .454----------.438
97-98 - .481----------.428
98-99 - .468----------.465
99-00 - .459----------.468
00-01 - .465----------.464
01-02 - .461----------.469
02-03 - .451---------.451
03-04 - .454----------.438
04-05 - .437----------.433
05-06 - .453----------.450
06-07 - .466----------.463
07-08 - .476----------.459
08-09 - .474----------.467

Ever heard of a guy named Scottie Pippen? Defense isn't measured in stats. So Jordan got a couple blocks and steals every game? That mounts to 4 possessions. Pippen locked down fools for entire games. What's more valuable. LMAO @ measuring defense in stats. Iverson used to perenially lead the elague in steals....he was one of the worst defensive players in the game.

[Imadogg]

This isn't about who's better between Jordan or Kobe. Dammit. I wonder how many people read the first post.

[Weps]

The defense strategies have improved since the 80's.
Now zone defenses are allowed, the double-teams are more organized, the defensive coach are better and they have more options to use to try to stop a player.

And yup, the players are technically worst than the 80's player.

Now there's a lot of players who came in the league without a jumper and they need to build it in the NBA.
No fundamental teaching in high schools, no tactical or basketball IQ improving.


The focus is not this one whatever, Micheal wasn't better than Kobe only because of his percentage.
If we keep the focus only on the offensive end, I think Kobe is even better than Jordan.
More weapons, better shooter, better 3point shooting and etc etc.
But Micheal is a player from another planet.

Better defender, the way he took the control of the games was UNREAL.
He dominated every single game, quarter, half or season he played in.
The shooting percentage is non influential in this judgement.

[Junayd]

For the record - The Knicks had their own version of the Jordan Rules.

And MJ didn't have as polished of a jumper as Kobe. He was a good mid-range shooter, but tell me how many highlights you see of him pulling up for a 3 in some dude's face, compared to him dunking on somebody. Kobe goes for high-risk, high-reward, while MJ goes for the easier baskets..different styles of game. Points per shot should be the better judge.

[cuguabunga]

Ever heard of a guy named Scottie Pippen? Defense isn't measured in stats. So Jordan got a couple blocks and steals every game? That mounts to 4 possessions. Pippen locked down fools for entire games. What's more valuable. LMAO @ measuring defense in stats. Iverson used to perenially lead the elague in steals....he was one of the worst defensive players in the game.

You have not idea. You were talking about 87-88 DPOY, Pippen was a rookie and play 20 mpg.
You didn't see play MJ defense?. Pippen was a top defense(but not in 87-88) and MJ too, both always were in 1st defensive team.

And you compare MJ defense with A.I?

Edited by cuguabunga, July 22, 2009 - 04:25 AM.

[Nirvana]

Anyone who makes excuses for Kobe's FG% not being as good as Jordan's are joking themselves.

Kobe takes random "WTF" shots at key times and he misses them.

Jordan is better at:

Creating shots

Taking shots

Creating shots for teammates (I'll get flamed for this).

Before a random Laker fan comes in here and says "blah blah you don't know what you're talking about", go back and watch some film on Jordan.

Edited by Darth Bynumite, July 22, 2009 - 04:43 AM.

[WeMissPhilJackson]

jordan is more clutch than kobe.

[revgen]

Jordan shot over 50% even after he finally figured out how to beat it so what exactly is your point?

The point is that Jordan never had a big man like Shaq, Pau, or even Bynum. He was the low post option in the triangle. That's why he shot 50%.

[Real Deal]

Fun fact...the Pistons and the Knicks are truly the only two teams to apply the "Jordan Rules" and, funny enough, neither went about it the same way.

[Weps]

The point is that Jordan never had a big man like Shaq, Pau, or even Bynum. He was the low post option in the triangle. That's why he shot 50%.

Only in the second 3peat, because his speed and agility weren't the same of the beginning of his career and he fitted his game to this physical changes