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Jordan's six Finals appearances


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#41 Grandpa Herman

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Posted June 11, 2009 - 11:20 PM

It looks like Jordan didn't trust many people at all in the second three-peat, and this is coming from a huge, huge Jordan fan.

I guess....?
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#42 zenighata2001

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Posted June 11, 2009 - 11:43 PM

nice post.

by the way im more impress with bryant rahter than jordan.
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#43 Guest_Chicano_*

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Posted June 11, 2009 - 11:47 PM

Pippen was the best small forward in the game and a consistent 1st team all defender and all nba. Kerr I believe has the best 3pt% in the playoffs. Rodman won 2 DPOY and 7 rebounding titles. Kukoc won 6th man of the year.

MJ had:

A future HOF and argubably the best swing defender ever

The best pound for pound rebounder in the HISTORY of the game

The Best Euro Player in the game at the time...coming off the bench...

#44 Imadogg

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 03:50 AM

Agree with you chicano. MJ definitely wasn't alone in those titles. He was easily always the greatest player on the floor and in the league, and he rose to the occasion when his team needed him, but he was not alone. Scottie is a top 50 player and yes, one of the best perimeter defenders ever. And I believe Dennis Rodman is the number 1 greatest rebounder of all time.

#45 zERoSiX

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 04:12 AM

im glad to hear other people defend kobe's fg attempts.
it always irritated the crap out of me when analysts keep saying that when kobe shoots less, the lakers win.
like some one on this thread said, that stat is misleading. the reason he didnt shoot a lot those games is because everyone else was probably on and he didnt need to shoot that much and just facilitated.

i would always say that no one ever told jordan to shoot less, even later in his career when his fg% was down cuz all he was doing was fadeaway J's, and im a jordan > kobe kinda of guy.

you need to run your offense through your best offensive player (in this case, the best offensive player on the planet right now), its his job to make the right play, whether its to shoot the ball or pass, it all depends on what the defense gives you. kobe shooting less for the sake of shooting less is stupid and will not win a lot of ball games, ie game 7 against the suns.

Edited by zERoSiX, June 12, 2009 - 04:14 AM.


#46 Real Deal

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 04:52 AM

Well, the funny thing about the "shoot more and lose" stat is that, if the Lakers blow a team out, Kobe sits in the fourth...and what does that mean? Less shot attempts.

And, as mentioned, he also has to jack shots up if we're down by more than ten late in the game, and that's better than letting Vujacic do it.

#47 Imadogg

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 04:53 AM

Well, the funny thing about the "shoot more and lose" stat is that, if the Lakers blow a team out, Kobe sits in the fourth...and what does that mean? Less shot attempts.

And, as mentioned, he also has to jack shots up if we're down by more than ten late in the game, and that's better than letting Vujacic do it.

Most national tv commentators don't really know anything about teams individually like us fans do though. So they just use those stats and act like they're geniuses. It's annoying sometimes.

#48 Real Deal

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 04:57 AM

Most national tv commentators don't really know anything about teams individually like us fans do though. So they just use those stats and act like they're geniuses. It's annoying sometimes.

Not only that, but I've mentioned before that your shot attempts shouldn't be a green light to blast the player if it closes in on the number of points he has.

For instance, if Bryant isn't getting any calls, no trips to the line, and he shoots 9-18 from the field to get, say, 20 points (all two's, and maybe two free throws), 20 points on 18 shots seems like garbage, until you notice his FG% is 50%.

#49 Imadogg

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 05:08 AM

Not only that, but I've mentioned before that your shot attempts shouldn't be a green light to blast the player if it closes in on the number of points he has.

For instance, if Bryant isn't getting any calls, no trips to the line, and he shoots 9-18 from the field to get, say, 20 points (all two's, and maybe two free throws), 20 points on 18 shots seems like garbage, until you notice his FG% is 50%.

Oh you're damn right, most people look at certain things and not the whole picture. 18pts on 9-18 shooting is very efficient.

I watch every minute of every game so I can see when Kobe is forcing shots, today he was just doing it, so I was yelling at the tv all game. And the final 35% shooting stat is an indicator of that. 32 on 31 shots on 35% isn't efficient at all.

#50 Guest_Chicano_*

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 11:16 AM

Most national tv commentators don't really know anything about teams individually like us fans do though. So they just use those stats and act like they're geniuses. It's annoying sometimes.

They're [expletive]ing fools sometimes period. I'm sick of Breen, 'MARK JACKSON' & to some degree Jeff as well, but out of those three, Jeff is by far the most tolerable for me. Btw, some people pointed out to me how depressed they all sounded after the game with the result, lmao.

#51 Game

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 11:37 AM

i think you can attribute the low %ages in kb and mjs (last 3 series') partially to wearing the crown, or being considered the best player in the game, unstoppable and what that means for how opposing defenses play you. and also the transition with age to becomin a jumpshooter. a lot of people would argue (i think) that jordan was a better player during those last 3 finals series' than in the first set. the numbers don't really indicate that though. on a side note, i still wonder how kobe would look without zone defenses. and i don't think handchecking would have been a problem for him either...would have just made him a better defender

when lebron eventually take over the league, he'll have better numbers than kobe, and probably jordan. and honestly, i would hope he did, with that speed, and that body, there's no way he shouldn't shoot 50% as easy as he can get to the rack. but aside from the fact that in this particular case, he has enough other skills to end up in the best ever conversation, numbers aren't really what its about though, as anyone who watches basketball will tell you. shaq put up crazy numbers in his finals MVP appearances, but i don't hear too many people talking about how shaq is better than jordan.

back to my first point about how the best player crown will get you a different defense than everyone else in the league every night. admittedly, i don't watch a whole ton of cavs games, but based on the ones i have seen, lebron is not defended like kobe is. to me it seems teams do more to try to stop kobe than they do to try to stop lebron. especially late in games. and by those last 3 years, jordan saw a different commitment to defending him every night probably a little more so than those first 3, before his legacy and place at the top were completely established.

just some random observations of mine

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#52 ab4sure

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Posted June 12, 2009 - 10:22 PM

A player efficiency isn't always measured in how many points over shots. If he shoots say 10-20 for 22 points that is only 2 pts. more than the number of shots and yet still efficient. Also in Jordan's era they allowed for much more physical play than today. They didn't have the no hand check rule then. Also, when Jordan did miss 5 ft's it was partly due to the fact he shot alot such as going 15-21. Still in the mid 70's so not that bad.


As far as is Kobe shooting too much it isn't like he is shooting way too much. I think Phil mentioned that he would like Kobe to be more selective in picking his spots and to not neglect the team. I think for the most part he has done that with some exceptions.

I wonder if kobe's next three years will look like Jordan's last 3 years with the bulls statistically speaking. We can only hope they will also end with championships.
[color="#DDA0DD"]•"Good teams become great ones when the members trust each other enough to surrender the Me for the We."

•"The ideal way to win a championship is step by step."

PHIL JACKSON
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