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Why can't they beat the Cavs in Cleveland?!


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#21 lakerfool

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:09 AM

okay so then answer my question

why does lebron only average 7.4 apg if he to quote you "creates everything for them"

you still haven't answered that as opposed to deron williams and chris paul who in similar roles average double digits

and don't give me hes a foward and they are PGs because you yourself said hes the floor general and essential PG of this team saying "mo williams is a SG in a PG body"


Because Deron Williams and Chris Paul are point guards first. LeBron balances his creation with scoring as well. It's about balance.

If LeBron wanted to score less, which he maybe would if he had Pau Gasol as his teammate, he could easily average 8-9 assists a game. But with no post presence, like Kobe has with Gasol, he has to score.

I can one up you here. In the Beijing Olympics, LeBron ended with 30 assists in 8 games, while Paul ended with 33 assists in 8 games. Therefore, when given equal teammates, he's averaging almost the same amount of assists as Paul does. Can we say OWNED? LOL.

ok i agree so then since kobe has elite teammates who create for themselves in your words and lebron has scrubs who need him to do everything for him

why is it that kobe the ball hog averages merely 2 less assists per game

Olympics, where they both have equal teammates: LeBron, 30 assists in 8 games. Kobe 17 assists in 8 games. OWNED.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#22 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:18 AM

did you watch the olympics kobe never had the ball in his hands

sometimes i think you don't watch any of the games and simply look at the stat sheet

with the starting unit lebron and kidd had the ball

with the 2nd unit paul and wade had the ball

kobe was a spot up shooter and lock down defender that was his role plain and simple

and stop saying owned when your not owning anyone

my point is lebron is the central offense he does everything and kobe is not he has pau, lamar, and bynum when healthy and lebron averages a total of 5 points effected per game scoring only 1 more point and 2 more assists per game as the central offense

so either lebron is more selfish than you let on or lebrons teammates are stronger than you let on

stop giving me if lebron had gasol because it is a what if and if you are the supposed college student you are you would know a what if is not a legitimate arguement
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#23 LD2k

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:32 AM

Doesn't matter. His teammates are not as good as Kobe's teammates.

Pau Gasol is a 20/10/4 assist type of player. Odom is averaging 14 pts, 11 reb, 3 assists, 2 blk, 1 stl as a starter. These are huge impact players playing next to Kobe. Stop giving Kobe all the credit. Especially with the crappy March he had where Gasol picked up all the slack.

Give LeBron Pau Gasol instead of Zydrunas as his second option, and we'll see how LeBron does. Until then, there's no comparison. Kobe has elite teammates.

Hypotheticals!!!

It's arguments like these why I sort of want the Cavs in the Finals. Then LeBron(ze) will once again be beaten by Kobe Bryant and these overhyped, absurd arguments can go die.

#24 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:41 AM

Hypotheticals!!!

It's arguments like these why I sort of want the Cavs in the Finals. Then LeBron(ze) will once again be beaten by Kobe Bryant and these overhyped, absurd arguments can go die.


thats the big issue with his arguements they are all about

if lebron had pau or if he had a post player

the facts are lebron has worse teammates than kobe this is true but then why is it that lebron the central focus of his team only averages 1 more PPG and 2 more assists in a role that in comparison kobe averaged 7 more PPG and only 3 less assists and this was with guys who couldn't finish which lebron has guys who can put the ball in the hoop and the stats show that or MJ who in a similar position averaged not only more points but more assists, rebounds, and steals and blocks than lebron is averaging now about 3 seasons straight

i love lebron but the level at which lakerfool will go using pure hypotheticals to attempt to strengthen his arguement is nausiating
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#25 LD2k

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:46 AM

Agree. And I've said - LeBron has been phenominal this year. BUT, if Lakers end up with HCA overall. My MVP vote goes to Kobe.

40-1 - that "1" was the Lakers. That's a big deal.

#26 lakerfool

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:50 AM

did you watch the olympics kobe never had the ball in his hands

sometimes i think you don't watch any of the games and simply look at the stat sheet

with the starting unit lebron and kidd had the ball

with the 2nd unit paul and wade had the ball

kobe was a spot up shooter and lock down defender that was his role plain and simple

and stop saying owned when your not owning anyone

my point is lebron is the central offense he does everything and kobe is not he has pau, lamar, and bynum when healthy and lebron averages a total of 5 points effected per game scoring only 1 more point and 2 more assists per game as the central offense

so either lebron is more selfish than you let on or lebrons teammates are stronger than you let on

stop giving me if lebron had gasol because it is a what if and if you are the supposed college student you are you would know a what if is not a legitimate arguement


LeBron had nearly as many assists as Paul, and played nearly equal amount of minutes. This is proof that LeBron can pass at an equal rate with equal teammates as an elite PG as Paul.

Kobe doesn't have the ball in his hands because he's more prone to TO's, and doesn't have the court vision of LeBron.

Don't give you the Gasol argument? 19 ppg, 10 reb, 4 assists. Enough said.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#27 L.A.K.E.R

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:51 AM

Agree. And I've said - LeBron has been phenominal this year. BUT, if Lakers end up with HCA overall. My MVP vote goes to Kobe.

40-1 - that "1" was the Lakers. That's a big deal.


Damn, I wish I had one of those...

#28 LD2k

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:53 AM

Who ever said Kobe has better court vision than Bron?

Right, also Kobe's determination on defense in the Olympics set the standard for LeBron this year.

#29 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:54 AM

LeBron had nearly as many assists as Paul, and played nearly equal amount of minutes. This is proof that LeBron can pass at an equal rate with equal teammates as an elite PG as Paul.

Kobe doesn't have the ball in his hands because he's more prone to TO's, and doesn't have the court vision of LeBron.

Don't give you the Gasol argument? 19 ppg, 10 reb, 4 assists. Enough said.


i said don't give me the gasol arguement if he was lebrons teammate because that is purely hypothetical

and kobe didn't have the ball in his hands because jason kidd, chris paul, lebron, and wade are all much less effective off the ball while kobe with his shooting can still be effective

not only that but who had the ball in his hands when team USA gave up the 15 point lead to spain and who was responsible for the 15 straight points that led to the Gold victory who was given the ball in crunch time with everything on the line

this is fact

Edited by last stand 2.0, April 06, 2009 - 11:56 AM.

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#30 lakerfool

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 11:56 AM

Agree. And I've said - LeBron has been phenominal this year. BUT, if Lakers end up with HCA overall. My MVP vote goes to Kobe.

40-1 - that "1" was the Lakers. That's a big deal.

It is a big deal. It's Kobe's and PAU'S accomplishment. PAU GASOL. Let it sink in. PAU GASOL. Kobe isn't the only franchise player on this team.

i said don't give me the gasol arguement if he was lebrons teammate because that is purely hypothetical

and kobe didn't have the ball in his hands because jason kidd, chris paul, lebron, and wade are all much less effective off the ball while kobe with his shooting can still be effective

Coach K said that himself


The argument is legit.

We can say Robert Horry is greater than Chris Webber because of rings. But you have to put it in contest. He played with kobe/shaq, and then Duncan.

Pau Gasol is an EQUAL leader on the Lakers whether you like it or not. LeBron doesn't have that, yet still has one more win? LeBron is easily the best player in this league, and it's not even close.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#31 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:00 PM

It is a big deal. It's Kobe's and PAU'S accomplishment. PAU GASOL. Let it sink in. PAU GASOL. Kobe isn't the only franchise player on this team.



The argument is legit.

We can say Robert Horry is greater than Chris Webber because of rings. But you have to put it in contest. He played with kobe/shaq, and then Duncan.

Pau Gasol is an EQUAL leader on the Lakers whether you like it or not. LeBron doesn't have that, yet still has one more win? LeBron is easily the best player in this league, and it's not even close.


nobody is arguing about pau we are arguing your assertion that lebron is the best hands down and its not close which is ludicrous and any basketball analyst would argue that your wrong no matter who they believe is better because the truth is it is close no matter who you think is better and to say otherwise is simply being bias

It is a big deal. It's Kobe's and PAU'S accomplishment. PAU GASOL. Let it sink in. PAU GASOL. Kobe isn't the only franchise player on this team.



The argument is legit.

We can say Robert Horry is greater than Chris Webber because of rings. But you have to put it in contest. He played with kobe/shaq, and then Duncan.

Pau Gasol is an EQUAL leader on the Lakers whether you like it or not. LeBron doesn't have that, yet still has one more win? LeBron is easily the best player in this league, and it's not even close.


we aren't talking about rings and noone in their right mind would say horry is better than webber while lebron and kobe is a legitimate comparison

and teammates are hypothetical

what if you put kobe on the bulls of the 90s what if you put MJ with shaq what if you brought back wilt and put him with kobe

there is no statistical support for any of these claims
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#32 lakerfool

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:02 PM

Okay, then we can say for a FACT, since there are no hypotheticals, that during the years that Nash won MVP because of better record, Steve Nash > Kobe Bryant.

Last stand 2.0 believes that Nash > Kobe, because there are no hypothetical, and we can't look at teammates.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#33 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:02 PM

It is a big deal. It's Kobe's and PAU'S accomplishment. PAU GASOL. Let it sink in. PAU GASOL. Kobe isn't the only franchise player on this team.



The argument is legit.

We can say Robert Horry is greater than Chris Webber because of rings. But you have to put it in contest. He played with kobe/shaq, and then Duncan.

Pau Gasol is an EQUAL leader on the Lakers whether you like it or not. LeBron doesn't have that, yet still has one more win? LeBron is easily the best player in this league, and it's not even close.


that is a ludicrous statement with 0 statistical support

hell the stats themselves say its close

and any basketball analyst would disagree with you minus a proclaimed kobe hater in john hollinger
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#34 offtheheezy

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:05 PM

every thread becomes an argument. just bring back shotta's lebron is quickly taking the place as best player or blah blah blah thread back.

LeBron in Olympics w/o Kobe : Bronze
LeBron in Olympics w/ Kobe: Gold

And to see that a lot of the players in the Olympics teams are having career seasons after playing with Kobe Bryant. =)

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#35 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:08 PM

Okay, then we can say for a FACT, since there are no hypotheticals, that during the years that Nash won MVP because of better record, Steve Nash > Kobe Bryant.

Last stand 2.0 believes that Nash > Kobe, because there are no hypothetical, and we can't look at teammates.


what the hell are you talking about you can compare teammates but comparing is different from a substitution arguement

you are saying put lebron with pau that is different than pau>zydrunas
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#36 lakerfool

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:09 PM

every thread becomes an argument. just bring back shotta's lebron is quickly taking the place as best player or blah blah blah thread back.

LeBron in Olympics w/o Kobe : Bronze
LeBron in Olympics w/ Kobe: Gold

And to see that a lot of the players in the Olympics teams are having career seasons after playing with Kobe Bryant. =)

You can only say that if Kobe lead the team. But it is clear that Wade and LeBron were the clear leaders of the team, while Kobe was the third or fourth best player.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#37 lakerfool

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:12 PM

what the hell are you talking about you can compare teammates but comparing is different from a substitution arguement

you are saying put lebron with pau that is different than pau>zydrunas



We don't know if we put Kobe with Amare/Marion that he would have a good record. How do you know that putting Nash/Odom would be a bad result?


Now do you see your gap in logic?
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#38 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:12 PM

nobody says lebron has better teammates but to say lebron is way better than kobe is ludicrous and on your arguement of record with lesser teammates then

dirk nowitzki must be better than both lebron and kobe because he won MVP and 67 games with guys you yourself said were lesser a young devin harris before he emerged, josh howard averaging about 17ppg and dampier and jason terry

dirk also took that same team to the NBA finals and won 2 games

so then by your arguements dirk is better than kobe and lebron and its not close
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#39 magicbalala245

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:13 PM

You can only say that if Kobe lead the team. But it is clear that Wade and LeBron were the clear leaders of the team, while Kobe was the third or fourth best player.



I wonder who was the best defender & made those clutch shots for USA in the Gold Medal match................ O snap I forget it was Kobe NOT LEBRON
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#40 last stand 2.0

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Posted April 06, 2009 - 12:13 PM

We don't know if we put Kobe with Amare/Marion that he would have a good record. How do you know that putting Nash/Odom would be a bad result?


Now do you see your gap in logic?


gap in my logic your right we don't know what happens if you put kobe on the suns or lebron on the lakers thats why its not a legit arguement

thats what i'm arguing did you confuse yourself :lol:
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