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Lakers Defense


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#21 Mr. Laker

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Posted March 28, 2009 - 07:47 PM

Exactly my thoughts.

yea..what i look at is effort, is it that horrible that Lakers don't try against teams with -500 records?
i understand that you'll lose 5 or 6 games in a season because of it but id rather do that then be like cavs and win against bad teams and come playoff time they have waisted energy...id take what Lakers are doing i don't want this team to wear them selves out

#22 lakerfool

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Posted March 28, 2009 - 08:13 PM

I just feel when Drew is there, Pau is A PF, Odom isnt being beat up by bigger players and every thing is right in the world.
But we have better D than last year, and we can win the whole thing


Odom is our best defender this year, and probably plays his best defense against PF's. Odom has thrived ever since taking the starting position.

IMO, when Bynum comes back, Bynum should be a super sub off the bench (like McHale was in Boston).
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#23 Real Deal

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Posted March 28, 2009 - 10:39 PM

So what I'm reading is that it's not that big of a deal that we allow teams to destroy us after a big lead?

Take points per 100 possessions. Let's say the Bobcats scored 90 points on us in a game. Looks pretty good? Not exactly, because let's just say they had an awful 60 by the end of the third. They come out and score 30, including a 15-2 run, and we blow a double-digit lead to lose by a couple of points, 90-88.

THAT is poor defense, and will be costly later on. Charlotte may have shot under 40% for those first three quarters, but them shooting over 55% for the fourth, killing us with a scoring run, and putting up 30 in the fourth lost us the game.

It's always going to backfire when you use numbers, but then shut down others who use numbers. In the end, it's all about what you do to win a game. The Lakers don't play defense good enough, consistent enough, to win those type of games.

Yeah, we beat Boston and Cleveland. What did we do against the Magic? We left shooters open, and let Dwight do whatever he wanted in the post, and we lost both games. Our two defensive weaknesses, exposed.

If Manu comes back healthy for that WCF meeting we may have with the Spurs, we are in trouble. We may have beaten them 4-1 last year, but now they are re-loaded with Mason as a three-point threat, and a healthy Manu hurts us (unlike the injured one hurt the Spurs last season).

An offensive team like ours, combined with a top five defensive team as you claim we are, would have the best record in the NBA and would be on pace to win 69-70 games. We aren't doing either of those, and are close to losing home court advantage in the Finals (if we meet CLE).

We are hardly a top defensive team in the league. Phil Jackson says we aren't, Tex Winter says we aren't, and I say we aren't. You can't get that much more convincing.

#24 allornothing

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Posted March 29, 2009 - 04:46 AM

The blame is not only the players but the coaching staff. I remember Phil would yank players during the Bulls and even during our 3peat era if they didn't defense. Heck , Phil seems to love our scrubs alot. He had no problem yanking a better offensive player in Glen Rice for Foxy.
Why hasn't the coaching staff address the stupid fouls that Sasha and Farmar make defending players 30 feet away from the basket. Those guys use their hands instead of their feet.
Moreso, he should berate Kobe and Trevor for gambling too much on defense when they can be just shut down defenders. This team could have been special defensively this year if they wanted to.

At the beginning of the season , everybody talked about defense but that's just BS. As much as Lamar can be a headcase, he's probably the only player on this team that has played consistent defense throughout the season.

#25 Rene

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Posted March 30, 2009 - 10:07 AM

So what I'm reading is that it's not that big of a deal that we allow teams to destroy us after a big lead?

No, what you're reading is PER 100 possessions is a much better measuring stick for defense. Again, teams play different paces, PPG allowed will differ, when teams play the Lakers, the pace would be higher as opposed to teams playing the Spurs, the result? More shot attempts, and naturally, more made shots. You tried to use PPG allowed as a measurment for defense, which I pointed out has conflicts, simple as that.

Take points per 100 possessions. Let's say the Bobcats scored 90 points on us in a game. Looks pretty good? Not exactly, because let's just say they had an awful 60 by the end of the third. They come out and score 30, including a 15-2 run, and we blow a double-digit lead to lose by a couple of points, 90-88.

That's a situational, and holding a team to 90 in a losing effort is not impressive, I agree. The Lakers are pretty high in their offensive rating, so you bet they'll be scoring 103+ PPG a game on most occasions. When all is said and done, the Lakers allow 102.1 PER 100 possessions. Whether you want to admit it or not, that is solid defense.

THAT is poor defense, and will be costly later on. Charlotte may have shot under 40% for those first three quarters, but them shooting over 55% for the fourth, killing us with a scoring run, and putting up 30 in the fourth lost us the game.

Again, you gave me a situational — what if I go and say the Lakers played horrible defense the first two quarters against the Bobcats and shut them down the second half? The Lakers' winning margin is around 6-7 points I believe.

It's always going to backfire when you use numbers, but then shut down others who use numbers.

I've reiterated over and over why PPG allowed isn't a good measuring stick for the Lakers' defense. Why you don't agree with it is beyond me, it's clear that using PPG allowed, which is PER game, is inconsistent when teams play at different paces. Points PER 100 possessions is a much better measuring stick. And the Lakers are 6th in their defensive rating, despite the situationals you've given me, when all is said and done, the Lakers are an efficient defensive team.

I personally don't think PPG allowed is a good measuring stick for defense. There are conflicts with it, more notably, the pace of one team when you compare the pace of another. Take the Spurs, for example, they play a slow tempo offense/pace, and are definitely a great defensive team, lets pretend they allow 92 PPG a game, however, the Lakers allow 100 PPG, but play a faster style of basketball, more shots are taken in the game, which in turn leads to more points put on the scoreboard. I think the best way of measuring a teams defense is by looking at their Defensive Rating and/or Efficiency. You can find those right here.

The Lakers are 6th in their defensive rating, yet if you strictly based it off of PPG allowed, the Lakers are ranked 16th in that category, which leads to misconceptions about the team's defense.

Yeah, we beat Boston and Cleveland. What did we do against the Magic? We left shooters open, and let Dwight do whatever he wanted in the post, and we lost both games. Our two defensive weaknesses, exposed.

Not sure what this has to do with the argument, but I'll say this — no team wins all 82 games in the season.

If Manu comes back healthy for that WCF meeting we may have with the Spurs, we are in trouble. We may have beaten them 4-1 last year, but now they are re-loaded with Mason as a three-point threat, and a healthy Manu hurts us (unlike the injured one hurt the Spurs last season).

Not sure how this relates to defense...

An offensive team like ours, combined with a top five defensive team as you claim we are, would have the best record in the NBA and would be on pace to win 69-70 games. We aren't doing either of those, and are close to losing home court advantage in the Finals (if we meet CLE).

Incorrect, the Boston Celtics are 6th in their Offensive rating and first in their Defensive rating. All it means is that the team is a solid defenisve team and a solid offensive team, you're making it to be something it's not. :blush:

We are hardly a top defensive team in the league. Phil Jackson says we aren't, Tex Winter says we aren't, and I say we aren't. You can't get that much more convincing.

Well, maybe Phil Jackson, Text Winter, and yourself haven't looked at the statsheet. It doesn't tell all, but it gives you a significant overview of the teams abilities. I say we are, and I have a copuple of things to prove it with, you say we aren't, you you bring up a flawed PPG allowed system. Whether you like it or not, the Lakers are a solid defensive team.




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