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Flagrant Foul Clarification


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#1 SaintNicholasVanExel

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Posted March 11, 2009 - 01:03 PM

Andrew Kamenetzky:

In talking yesterday with NBA Vice President of Communications Tim Frank about how Trevor Ariza's situation with Rudy Fernandez (and others similar) might be evaluated, I learned of a common misconception among fans, players, coaches, and media (yours truly included). Whether someone makes a play on the ball isn't the determining factor in assessing a flagrant foul. Or even "a" determining factor, really. Instead, it's a matter of whether the contact itself was necessary and/or excessive.

In a case like Trevor's, that can obviously get very dicey. On one hand, the league rightfully wants to protect its players, and Fernandez is essentially a sitting (or flying) duck while airborne. You don't want to see him get hurt. On the other hand, where do you draw the line between contact acceptable vs. excessive? Ariza obviously made contact with Fernandez's head, but he also came reasonably close to getting a block. Another few inches one way or the other and he might have missed the ball, but also avoided Fernandez's head. Either way, if he was able to come that close, it's understandable to me why he didn't feel compelled to just concede the basket. Throw in the fact that Ariza really did appear more interested in Spalding hunting than hunting heads and it becomes an even tougher call.

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#2 Pau16Kobe24Drew17

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Posted March 11, 2009 - 01:44 PM

To me the whole thing was an unfortunate accident, but as I said then I didn't see anything intentional or excessive from Trevor. The fall by Fernandez was excessive, but it was just an unfortunate thing that happened. I really don't have a big problem with Odom's suspension, but would feel better if Roy who came all the way down there and started the altercation had also been suspended. If you are going to suspend for leaving bench area when a fight of sorts breaks out, does it not make sense to suspend the one who started it? And, once again, I don't view Ariza as who started it. The guy plays with a motor going one speed all the time and this play was no different.

#3 GCMD

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Posted March 11, 2009 - 01:45 PM

Excessive and unfortunate sum it up nicely.

#4 fido

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Posted March 11, 2009 - 02:05 PM

Of course "selling" the foul and writhing around on the floor unnecessarily don't come into play in the rule book. But unfortunately, it comes into play during games.

It's all about how you fall nowadays. Whatever people's impression of the rule is, its been contorted into how well "hurt" you look after you get knocked down.

#5 UKUGA

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Posted March 11, 2009 - 02:09 PM

I don't think this is that groundbreaking.

Trevor made a play on the ball, and then continued threw and hit Rudy in the head and came across his arms.

I probably wouldn't have awarded more than an F-1, but the F-2 is not completely, and utterly surprising; however, without a doubt, the F-2 was due to what happened to Rudy at the end of the play.



Clearly, a player can both, a) make a play on the ball; and b ) initiate excessive contact.

Edited by UKUGA, March 11, 2009 - 02:10 PM.

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#6 Notorious Arab

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Posted March 11, 2009 - 03:50 PM

It was an accident and it is all over. Lets focus on our next game.

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#7 Base

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Posted March 11, 2009 - 08:07 PM

Of course "selling" the foul and writhing around on the floor unnecessarily don't come into play in the rule book. But unfortunately, it comes into play during games.

It's all about how you fall nowadays. Whatever people's impression of the rule is, its been contorted into how well "hurt" you look after you get knocked down.

He didn't sell the foul, it was the way he fell. He wasn't in control of his body after the contact, but who is when they are flying like a Ninja when they don't have a license too?




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