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Rumors: Lakers Get Trade Exception


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#21 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:32 PM

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for this.

It was Odom for Stoudemire - straight up. And 11 mil more on the cap / luxury tax. All for a guy that doesn't know the system, is a known pouter / attitude problem when things don't go his way, might not have a defined role when Bynum comes back and could very well bolt for big bucks, leaving the Lakers nothing for the deal.

It was a tough one, but it was the right decision made by the Lakers.

#22 last stand 2.0

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:35 PM

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for this.

It was Odom for Stoudemire - straight up. And 11 mil more on the cap / luxury tax. All for a guy that doesn't know the system, is a known pouter / attitude problem when things don't go his way, might not have a defined role when Bynum comes back and could very well bolt for big bucks, leaving the Lakers nothing for the deal.

it was a tough one, but it was the right decision made by the Lakers.


well odom might bolt for big bucks this offseason unlikely but possible

i would have done it simply because our second unit is run and gun and he would be ideal at center in that kind of system

amare
ariza
morrison
sasha
farmar

would be run and gun and could give kobe, drew, and gasol much needed rest

but i see the downside he is not a possible cheap player he is 25 and wants the big deal so i definately see where they are coming from

now in june if cleveland is holding up the LOB trophy and amare is there then i might be upset but right now not so much

any chance talks resume
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#23 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:38 PM

Amare wouldn't settle for a bench role. The guy is looking to be THE guy on a team - or at least the second banana.

Pau has more than earned that right here and to take anything away from Gasol would be an absolute crime.

In other words, Amare would not be happy here. The uniform may get him pumped initially but once the reality of his role on this team settled in, he would be bummed - and not afraid to let it show.

I really think the the Amare trade talk you hear about everywhere has heated up since the Lakers turned down the deal. I couldn't see the Lakers dealing Odom right now. He's stepped up like they needed him too. Who knows, it could've been a ploy all along to get Lamar kicked in the butt.

If so, then it looks like it worked.

Amare - I'd be willing to bet - is going to Chicago. The suns could get Hinrich in return, giving them a backup PG they've never had and a starting PG when Nash bolts for New York to play with LeBron.

#24 last stand 2.0

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:41 PM

Amare wouldn't settle for a bench role. The guy is looking to be THE guy on a team - or at least the second banana.

Pau has more than earned that right here and to take anything away from Gasol would be an absolute crime.

In other words, Amare would not be happy here. The uniform may get him pumped initially but once the reality of his role on this team settled in, he would be bummed - and not afraid to let it show.

I really think the the Amare trade talk you hear about everywhere has heated up since the Lakers turned down the deal. I couldn't see the Lakers dealing Odom right now. He's stepped up like they needed him too. Who knows, it could've been a plouy all along to get Lamar kicked in the butt.

If so, then it looks like ti worked.


i will say this though

if amare didn't work out you could get a hell of a lot on the market especially in the SF department

i definately see what your saying though it would have been a potential issue and the guys since the joe johnson issue has obviously proved he is not 100% in it for the wins

but its undeniable he would have been a hell of a trade piece in the offseason
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#25 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:43 PM

Right, but if Amare didn't work out in Phoenix, then copped an attitude underneath the legacy of the Lakers, Phil Jackson and Kobe, would his value be that high?

I think you'd never get what you thought market value for him would be.

Believe me when I first got wind of ti, my initial reaction was to do the deal, but once you stop and put the pieces together the Lakers did a smart thing.

Besides, in the meantime (after dealing Odom), you've taken away a key component to your team chemistry and on the court success during a championship run.

Sketchy at best.

#26 last stand 2.0

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:45 PM

Right, but if Amare didn't work out in Phoenix, then copped an attitude underneath the legacy of the Lakers, Phil Jackson and Kobe, would his value be that high?

I think you'd never get what you thought market value for him would be.

Meanwhile, you've taken away a key component to your team chemistry and on the court success during a championship run.

Sketchy at best.


true it would definately be a high risk high reward scenario

and his value would diminish in a contract year with people expecting him to hit the open market

and also ariza wouldn't get number 1 which might just be the deal breaker
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#27 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:47 PM

Now you get it.

See you're doing the same thing I did. At first its like, oh yeah do the deal. But as it settles in, it doesn't work out as good as the fantasy team in our heads want it to.

Also, by adding that salary to the payroll, it puts Buss so far over the cap that signing Ariza would be a near impossibility. And believe me, the Lakers do not want to let Ariza go.

#28 last stand 2.0

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:51 PM

Now you get it.

See you're doing the same thing I did. At first its like, oh yeah do the deal. But as it settles in, it doesn't work out as good as the fantasy team in our heads want it to.

Also, by adding that salary to the payroll, it puts Buss so far over the cap that signing Ariza would be a near impossibility. And believe me, the Lakers do not want to let Ariza go.

yeah at 22 he needs to stay a laker he has enormous potential

my ideal scenario would be

amare to chicago

bynum back in 7 weeks

i just dont want the guy in cleveland the athleticism of a lebron and amare pick and roll is ridiculous
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#29 lakerfool

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:53 PM

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for this.

It was Odom for Stoudemire - straight up. And 11 mil more on the cap / luxury tax. All for a guy that doesn't know the system, is a known pouter / attitude problem when things don't go his way, might not have a defined role when Bynum comes back and could very well bolt for big bucks, leaving the Lakers nothing for the deal.

It was a tough one, but it was the right decision made by the Lakers.


Ugh...then again it could be argued that Odom is better than Amare by the fact that Odom is a superior defender, and that Odom can pass the ball in the triangle instead of being a black hole.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#30 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:53 PM

But would adding him in at this stage of the season when LeBron and co. have finally figured things out be that smooth of a transition?

Personally, I think it would mess them up. (Which would be good, because I want Boston in the Finals anyway)

As for your other 2 points - I think you may just get your wish.

#31 last stand 2.0

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:57 PM

there is this one guy on RealGM name heathmalc and hes riling all the fans up saying how hes 99.9 percent sure amare is going to cleveland and how its already done and it will be announced tommorrow or tuesday

and they are eating it up
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#32 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 09:59 PM

Oh the internet.

How many times have "insiders" come rolling in claiming junk just to see how many hits they can get on their thread? Its one thing that makes this board so great - there's very little to no juvenile crap like that that gets by.

If he does go there, then good, Cleveland will fall behind Boston and the Lakers get to play the Celtics in the Finals. If Cleveland succeeds with him, then great - the Lakers play Cleveland, Stern gets his LeBron vs. Kobe dream fulfilled and the Lakers still come home with the trophy.

Its a win-win.

#33 lakerfool

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:02 PM

I don't see how Amare would hurt them though.

Cleveland's defense is top notch, and getting rid of Wally doesn't hurt their defense at all. Their problem has been offense. Other than Lebron, they have nobody consistent on offense aside from Mo, who is a very streaky player. Getting Amare answers their problems on offense big time.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#34 last stand 2.0

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:05 PM

yeah what people don't get is pau is better than amare and andrew is better than zydrunas

and we all know kobe and lebron cancel eachother out

also other pluses cleveland and boston could beat up on each other and while you want boston kobe does not play well against them i might prefer cleveland

I don't see how Amare would hurt them though.

Cleveland's defense is top notch, and getting rid of Wally doesn't hurt their defense at all. Their problem has been offense. Other than Lebron, they have nobody consistent on offense aside from Mo, who is a very streaky player. Getting Amare answers their problems on offense big time.


well they would lose anderson varejo their best defensive big man

and chemistry wise they are so locked into one another right now and amare would most definately disrupt that

but he does make them better how much i don't know

boston with marbury is probably more dangerous than cleveland with amare because amare plays no defense
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#35 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:06 PM

I just have a gut feeling it would hurt the Cavs chemistry right now.

I wouldn't be surprised because the Cavs have to A) show LeBron they're willing to do something bold to build around him and B) they have to do something to try and keep LeBron there, because as of right now, the kid is bolting for The Big Apple.

Marbury would be poison for the Celtics. That team is bursting at its ugly seams with ego right now. throwing another one like Marbury's into the mix would blow them up.

#36 lakerfool

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:07 PM

Anderson is a decent defender, but Ilgauskus is the best on their team IMO. The guy deters guys from driving.

Ben Wallace is also better than Anderson by the way he gets into passing lanes, and defends pick and rolls. Anderson's defense comes mainly from drawing fouls which is nice, but is made up for by adding somebody like Amare.

And keep in mind that Amare has never had a coach teach him how to defend. Mike Brown's defense is system oriented rather than by individuals, so I don't see Amare having too hard a time adapting, especially with his great athletecism.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#37 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:09 PM

I don't think Wallace is better than Josh Powell right now. Varejao is working his butt off on the boards every night. Wallace barely gets in the mix any more. When he's out on the floor he shies away from the paint and relies on getting longer boards. Losing Varejao would be a massive blow to what the Cavs like to do on defense and offense. Yes Amare brings other things too, but working without the ball being willing to take a backseat aren't what he brings.

That's what the Cavs need. When you have a big player like LeBron (or Kobe or Howard) others need to know how to work in around them as the focus. Amare isn't too god at doing that - at all.

Ben has fallen off big time.

Amare's never having anyone teach him defense doesn't mean that he's willing to do it. Nor does it mean he's even capable of it. Porter stresses defense, but Amare has had a bear of a time finding any kind of groove with it.

I don't know, I just have my reservations whether it would hurt or help the Cavs.

#38 lakerfool

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:19 PM

I disagree with Ben. He may not be showing great athletecism, but the man is a very smart defender. Anderson is the better rebounder, but he still doesn't defend picks too well, and he still gets abused worse than Wallace (as bad as wallace is in that regard) one on one.

Wallace is allowing an opponet EFF% of 46.5% as opposed to Varejao's 47.4%. Keep in mind too Wallace is playing against starters while Varejao is playing against backups.

As for rebounds, they are both grabbing around 7 a game in similar amount of minutes, with Wallace being the better offensive rebounder.

Amare's oppenent EFF FG% is horrible at 50%, but remember that's with Nash getting burnt regularly every play. Mike Brown's defense encourage players to take more 3 pointers.

Also, with Amare as a Cav, Wallace becomes more valuable off the bench, for he'll defend the Cavs would always have a shot blocker deterring teams from driving on the floor, as opposed to having a non-shot blocker in Anderson coming off the bench.
Gooden>> Lamar Odom. Mo Williams>> Ray Allen>> Gasol. Nene= Gasol.

#39 fido

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:22 PM

All great points lakerfool.

Like I said, I just get a feeling that it wouldn't work out. Aside from other points made, there's something to be said for chemistry and whether or not its working on a team. Its the magic ingredient that can't be measured by efficiency ratings or numbers.

Amare isn't a team-minded kind of guy so far. B ut maybe he'll change with a change of scenery.

#40 last stand 2.0

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Posted February 15, 2009 - 10:22 PM

I disagree with Ben. He may not be showing great athletecism, but the man is a very smart defender. Anderson is the better rebounder, but he still doesn't defend picks too well, and he still gets abused worse than Wallace (as bad as wallace is in that regard) one on one.

Wallace is allowing an opponet EFF% of 46.5% as opposed to Varejao's 47.4%. Keep in mind too Wallace is playing against starters while Varejao is playing against backups.

As for rebounds, they are both grabbing around 7 a game in similar amount of minutes, with Wallace being the better offensive rebounder.

Amare's oppenent EFF FG% is horrible at 50%, but remember that's with Nash getting burnt regularly every play. Mike Brown's defense encourage players to take more 3 pointers.

Also, with Amare as a Cav, Wallace becomes more valuable off the bench, for he'll defend the Cavs would always have a shot blocker deterring teams from driving on the floor, as opposed to having a non-shot blocker in Anderson coming off the bench.


yeah but amare is also a terrible man to man defender

gasol, duncan, KG tear him to shreads
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