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Fisher/Walton on Defense


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Poll: Fisher and Walton's Defense (45 member(s) have cast votes)

Is Fisher a good defender?

  1. Yes (26 votes [57.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.78%

  2. No (19 votes [42.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.22%

Is Walton a good defender?

  1. Yes (16 votes [35.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.56%

  2. No (29 votes [64.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.44%

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#41 Real Deal

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:13 PM

Fisher and Walton are horrible defenders.

It's only us Bulls fans that think that. Wake up, Nissan!

#42 Warren2ThaG

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:14 PM

Only thing I like about Sasha is how he gets on his opponents nerves (defense wise) haha, too streaky to be consistent on his shooting. He needs to get a tutor.

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#43 MDI

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:14 PM

he has turned things around though recently. In the limited minutes he's getting behind Kobe, he's being productive.

9 points in 12 minutes last night
4 points in 13 minutes at Cle...he had a couple of nifty passes to Gasol.
5 points at Boston and he played good defense on Eddie House to begin 4th when we cut down our deficit.
7 points in Toronto and he ended up finishing the game

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Props to sidthekid871


#44 Makaveli

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:14 PM

Fisher and Walton are horrible defenders.


c'mon now. Fish isn't a horrible defender.

#45 MDI

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:18 PM

The 2nd unit needs a shooter in the lineup. We don't need him in the starting lineup because Kobe and Fisher are better shooters than him.

Ariza finishing games? No! Ariza struggles when he plays in the final 6-5 mins of a game.

We don't need to make any changes to the lineup or playing time.

Fisher and Walton are horrible defenders.


Well thats where Morrison comes in. Move Ariza to SG and play Morrison at SF. Farmar and Ariza have incredible chemstry working together and its best that they play most of their minutes together

Agreed Ariza doesn't provide proper spacing to end games because of his inability to knock down the long range J consistently but with Kobe taking most of the shots on offense, I wouldn't mind sacrificing some O to shore up our perimeter D

Edited by MDI, February 11, 2009 - 12:19 PM.

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#46 West Coast

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:20 PM

So were going to re-sign him to big bucks to stay on the bench next year also?


Yeah basically. You dont find many players who enjoy coming off the bench and being an impact player.

#47 Guest_Nissan_*

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:25 PM

It's only us Bulls fans that think that. Wake up, Nissan!

:lol:

I want someone to show me some evidence of Fisher and Walton playing good defense.

c'mon now. Fish isn't a horrible defender.

Fisher is a horrible defender and he's worst than Odom at finishing at the rim. He can't even make layups. :nah:

Does flopping mean you play good defense? :blink:

#48 Real Deal

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:30 PM

Does flopping mean you play good defense? :blink:

Flopping, getting steals playing the passing lanes, yes. That's why Smush Parker was an EXCELLENT defender.

#49 Makaveli

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:38 PM

Fisher is a horrible defender and he's worst than Odom at finishing at the rim. He can't even make layups. :nah:

Does flopping mean you play good defense? :blink:

Horrible defender ? reading and knowing opponents offense, getting steals, defending guys who are 6'6, taking charges. 


Flopper = A.I

#50 West Coast

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:42 PM

:lol:

I want someone to show me some evidence of Fisher and Walton playing good defense.

Fisher is a horrible defender and he's worst than Odom at finishing at the rim. He can't even make layups. :nah:

Does flopping mean you play good defense? :blink:


and I want someone to show me evidence of Fisher being a "horrible defender."

Just because you may get lit up from time to time, doesnt mean anything. Players will have their nights regardless of who is going up against them.


#51 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 12:43 PM

And Lakers fans love the Lakers, sometimes way too much. Just because point guards get burned quite a bit doesn't mean Fisher is a good defensive player. Does that seriously make any sense?

So, because there aren't very many good coaches in the NBA, that must mean that Terry Porter is a good coach.

And, to prove my point about people favoring the Lakers players too much, look at how many say that Walton is a good defensive player. If I added Chris Mihm to that list above, I assure you that there would be at least ten votes, probably more, for him as well...and that's laughable.

Chinese Magic Johnson = Sun Yue.

I get the sense that you are the self-proclaimed most objective poster on here, Real Deal. Obsessed fans like me watch every regular season game and attend many of them as well. I see our players every game and watch them play against the rest of the players in the league. There are few players or rosters I'm not familiar with. I even knew who Shannon Brown was and was happy we acquired him. I also watch many, many other NBA games. TNT, ESPN, NBA TV. Perhaps I'm over saturated with it. But I should know MY team and MY players better than someone who doesn't watch them regularly, especially when I'm able to compare them head to head against the rest of the NBA. Sorry, but your logic escapes me. And please don't twist mine. I never said, "Just because point guards get burned quite a bit doesn't mean Fisher is a good defensive player." I pointed out why he's a good defender and WC21 did a much better job than I did of explaining it.

I have no clue what your Terry Porter comment meant. That one flew over my head.

I haven't mentioned Chris Mihm in this discussion, but I will now. I had hope for him because he claims he's 100% healthy. Now that I've seen him play, albeit briefly, he's done and he's a liability. Happy? As for your feeling that Luke Walton is one of the worst defenders in the NBA, maybe in a vacuum he is. But he understands the Lakers defensive schemes and Phil Jackson trusts him, which is all that matters. He was given an assignment to guard Paul Pierce twice this year and passed both tests with flying colors. Paul Pierce and almost every other talented small forward in the league would probably burn him in a game of one on one. Fortunately for us jaded Lakers fans who think highly of our 42-9 team who went to the NBA Finals last year, it's a team game and we're proving that we can beat everyone (ok, except the Magic). The only thing that is laughable is your assertion that we play no defense and that our 42-9 record is meaningless ... oh, and that Luke Walton sucks and we should get rid of him. Yeesh.

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, February 11, 2009 - 12:45 PM.


#52 Real Deal

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:19 PM

I get the sense that you are the self-proclaimed most objective poster on here, Real Deal. Obsessed fans like me watch every regular season game and attend many of them as well. I see our players every game and watch them play against the rest of the players in the league. There are few players or rosters I'm not familiar with. I even knew who Shannon Brown was and was happy we acquired him. I also watch many, many other NBA games. TNT, ESPN, NBA TV. Perhaps I'm over saturated with it. But I should know MY team and MY players better than someone who doesn't watch them regularly, especially when I'm able to compare them head to head against the rest of the NBA. Sorry, but your logic escapes me. And please don't twist mine. I never said, "Just because point guards get burned quite a bit doesn't mean Fisher is a good defensive player." I pointed out why he's a good defender and WC21 did a much better job than I did of explaining it.

I have no clue what your Terry Porter comment meant. That one flew over my head.

I haven't mentioned Chris Mihm in this discussion, but I will now. I had hope for him because he claims he's 100% healthy. Now that I've seen him play, albeit briefly, he's done and he's a liability. Happy? As for your feeling that Luke Walton is one of the worst defenders in the NBA, maybe in a vacuum he is. But he understands the Lakers defensive schemes and Phil Jackson trusts him, which is all that matters. He was given an assignment to guard Paul Pierce twice this year and passed both tests with flying colors. Paul Pierce and almost every other talented small forward in the league would probably burn him in a game of one on one. Fortunately for us jaded Lakers fans who think highly of our 42-9 team who went to the NBA Finals last year, it's a team game and we're proving that we can beat everyone (ok, except the Magic). The only thing that is laughable is your assertion that we play no defense and that our 42-9 record is meaningless ... oh, and that Luke Walton sucks and we should get rid of him. Yeesh.

Whoa, what makes you think I don't watch every Lakers game? Because I don't live in LA?

I'll say this much: I haven't missed a single game, of any team (not just the Lakers), this season. I've been unemployed because of my eyes, and I can't go out after 6:00 PM because it's too dark. Since November, my life has consisted of at-home computer work and basketball, and having League Pass and an NBA replay website (which I don't give out) means that I sit and watch games, all the time.

So, again, you don't need to assume you know more basketball than others just because a) you've been around longer than anyone else, or B) because you feel you understand role players more than anyone.

Walton is a bench player, not a starter. And when did he defend Pierce well? Kobe was on Pierce for that last meeting. If you're talking about the Christmas matchup, Pierce shot 50% from the field and put up a 20/10 performance. If that's flying colors for Walton...okay.

#53 Ethdude

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:29 PM

Walton has his own TV show, along with being a Laker. The poll should have been "is Luke Walton Amazing, or Amazingly Awesome?"

Edited by Ethdude, February 11, 2009 - 01:30 PM.

The best sports franchise in the world.

#54 Makaveli

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:31 PM

Walton has his own TV show, along with being a Laker. The poll should have been "is Luke Walton Amazing, or Amazingly Awesome?"


hahahaha.

#55 West Coast

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:31 PM

Walton has his own TV show, along with being a Laker. The poll should have been "is Luke Walton Amazing, or Amazingly Awesome?"


:mellow:

#56 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:39 PM

Whoa, what makes you think I don't watch every Lakers game? Because I don't live in LA?

I'll say this much: I haven't missed a single game, of any team (not just the Lakers), this season. I've been unemployed because of my eyes, and I can't go out after 6:00 PM because it's too dark. Since November, my life has consisted of at-home computer work and basketball, and having League Pass and an NBA replay website (which I don't give out) means that I sit and watch games, all the time.

So, again, you don't need to assume you know more basketball than others just because a) you've been around longer than anyone else, or B) because you feel you understand role players more than anyone.

Walton is a bench player, not a starter. And when did he defend Pierce well? Kobe was on Pierce for that last meeting. If you're talking about the Christmas matchup, Pierce shot 50% from the field and put up a 20/10 performance. If that's flying colors for Walton...okay.

I wasn't discussing you. I was discussing your assertion that "non-Lakers fans" are more objective. Disagree. As for your belief that Luke shouldn't be a starter, I'll go back to everything I've said. We don't have Tayshaun Prince and Trevor Ariza is our spark off the bench at that position. The coaches and players are very comfortable with Luke's role as a starter. More important, Luke is comfortable and confident with it.

We won on Christmas Day 92-83. Your kind of of game. Yes, Pierce played 38 minutes and was 7-13 from the field, but Luke had a great game if you will recall as well. In 28 minutes, he had 8 points on 3-6 shooting, including 2 3's, 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks and 0 turnovers. That's right -- NO turnovers! Not bad for a role player against the best defense in the league. I don't know when or against whom Pierce scored his points, but I know that Luke did the job he was asked to do and we held the mighty Chowds to 83 points. In our last W, Pierce was 5-13 from the field. He got off a whopping 13 shots in an OT game. I'll take it every time.

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, February 11, 2009 - 01:43 PM.


#57 Warren2ThaG

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:43 PM

15 votes for Walton is stretching it wow.

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#58 Real Deal

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:48 PM

We won on Christmas Day 92-83. Your kind of of game. Yes, Pierce played 38 minutes and was 7-13 from the field, but Luke had a great game if you will recall as well. In 28 minutes, he had 8 points on 3-6 shooting, including 2 3's, 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal and 2 blocks. Not bad for a role player against the best defense in the league. I don't know when or against whom Pierce scored his points, but I know that Luke did the job he was asked to do and we held the mighty Chowds to 83 points. In our last W, Pierce was 5-13 from the field. He got off a whopping 13 shots in an OT game. I'll take it every time.

Again, Kobe was on him the last game, from the first quarter on up to that stop he had on Pierce when Paul decided to try and win the game for Boston.

Walton did good, offensively, in the Christmas game. I don't even care about that. He's still shooting a poor percentage from the floor this season, which shouldn't happen when the guy is in the game with the likes of Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and Fisher (four guys who are more of an offensive threat than he is).

Yeah, we held Boston to 83. Then we let Golden State score 113 on us three days later, followed by the Jazz dropping 100 on us on the 2nd of January.

In eight of our first nine games in January, we allowed 100 or more points.

In the first three games of this month, against New York, Toronto and Boston, we allowed 107 or more.

So when do we say, "Oh damn, let's play defense tonight," and decide it's probably important for us to do so?

#59 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 01:56 PM

Again, Kobe was on him the last game, from the first quarter on up to that stop he had on Pierce when Paul decided to try and win the game for Boston.

Walton did good, offensively, in the Christmas game. I don't even care about that. He's still shooting a poor percentage from the floor this season, which shouldn't happen when the guy is in the game with the likes of Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and Fisher (four guys who are more of an offensive threat than he is).

Yeah, we held Boston to 83. Then we let Golden State score 113 on us three days later, followed by the Jazz dropping 100 on us on the 2nd of January.

In eight of our first nine games in January, we allowed 100 or more points.

In the first three games of this month, against New York, Toronto and Boston, we allowed 107 or more.

So when do we say, "Oh damn, let's play defense tonight," and decide it's probably important for us to do so?

Dude, you focus too much on the negative and not on the positive. "Yeah, we held Boston to 83. Then we let Golden State score 113 on us three days later, followed by the Jazz dropping 100 on us on the 2nd of January." Please correct me if I'm wrong, but W, W, W? Oh, and what happened to the Chowds after that loss to the Lakers?

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, February 11, 2009 - 01:57 PM.


#60 Real Deal

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Posted February 11, 2009 - 02:04 PM

Dude, you focus too much on the negative and not on the positive.

And that is your entire argument.

We won those games. Going back to Dallas, they won 67. A year before, they went to the Finals and lost to the Miami Heat because Dallas never, ever fixed their problems. They still haven't.

We are consistent with our positives. We can score 100 a game easily. We pass well. We don't always have to run the triangle offense. Our post play is good. Our perimeter play is good.

The negatives are also consistent. We don't defend the three. We have average (at best) defense at the point. Our interior defense disappears late in the game. Odom can't come off the bench and play well for us (he has to start, as we found out recently).

Anyone can talk about the positives. It takes someone paying close attention to discuss the negatives, because at the end of the day, those negatives are what determines a win or a loss.

The positive things we do will stay consistent all season. I'm not saying we have to get rid of our negatives completely, or else we'd be the perfect team. We just have to turn them into problems we see every once in a while, not every night.

Allowing 100+ for multiple games like that is not a good thing. We do it in the NBA Finals, and we'll lose once again. In fact, if we do it versus a Spurs team with a healthy Manu, we'll definitely lose.




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