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Ariza UPDATE: Still suffering "issues" from concussion


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#21 GCMD

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 07:06 PM

Doc, many QBs, like Troy Aikman and Chris Miller (who suffered 5 concussions in a span of 14 months), suffer "multiple" concussions. From what you're saying, that is different than "recurrent" concussions, is that right?


Once again, my disclaimer:

I do NOT claim to give out medical advice nor am I claiming to diagnose, cure or treat ANYONE over the internet. Anyone who makes those claims are either much more skilled than I, or completely and hopelessly RECKLESS. In any medical emergency, contact your family physician/emergency medical treatment center, not the INTERNET.

As for the specific instances you quoted, without knowing more about the case, I can't make a definitive statement either way. What I can do is reiterate what I said originally. Concussions are the result of trauma and don't have long lasting effects unless PERMANENT damage has occurred. In that case, the person's dura and surrounding tissue that was MEANT to cushion the brain and PREVENT concussions isn't doing it's job as well.

But that's not a "recurrent concussion". That's permanent damage to the brain's surrounding tissue.

Isn't that what lay people innocently mean when they say "recurrent" concussions?


They are tying independent trauma's together under the name "concussion" when a CONCUSSION is the RESULT of the trauma, not a cause of the subsequent traumas (unless the person's reflexes are dulled or impaired by blacking out or dizziness).

Little known fact: THe brain itself doesn't have massive pain receptors. Most of the pain you feel in a headache comes from the pain receptors on the blood vessels in and around the brain. Those vessels detect waste (as in toxins or metabolites - it would take WAYYY too long to go into depth here) and contract/dilate to increase/decrease blood flow...that is another source of the pain you may feel. Trauma can cause contraction, causing other things, causing bad metabolites leading to pain in all ways listed.

The dizziness/syncope comes from the decreased blood flow to certain areas AND getting you vestibulocochlear "bell" rung...(nerves are located in middle/inner/brain, all effected by the trauma).

Not to be understated, trauma causing the brain to slam against any part of the cranium can cause brain damage in the form of lesions...but not to worry, the brain re-wires small portions fairly easily. Larger ones result in a loss of function or prolonged symptoms.

This is a GROSS over-simplification of the neuroanatomy/neuropathophysiology of concussions and the resulting altered mental states. There is no way I could give you all of the info I've learned about this subject here, nor do I think anyone wants to know more than this.

Also, when boxers like Jerry Quarry suffer repeated blows to the head causing dementia, what are those considered?


Dementia (that you are talking about here) is from permanent damage to the brain itself. Sorry but the concussion is just the immediate symptoms following trauma, not a cause of any subsequent (far after the concussive symptoms subside) or previous (damage before the previous concussive symptoms subsided) permanent damage.

Trauma to the head caused his symptoms by causing damage (irreversible after repetition). That DAMAGE slowed his reflexes and predisposed him to further trauma.

No "concussion" lasted continuously over that time...and if it did, his trainers are responsible for letting him fight in that state.

Didn't Max Baer kill a boxer because his brain got detached from the dura? Or was that mythical and the guy died from hemorrhaging?


Max Baer was a MONSTER!!! From the reports, his punches were EXTRAORDINARY, akin to getting hit in the head with a frozen 20lb slab of MEAT over and over again...

I'm surprised he didn't kill MANY, MANY more people with that.

But again, it wasn't the "concussion". It was detachment of the dura. There are blood vessels running all thru the dura, sometimes anastomosed (connected) with vessels in the brain. A person who gets hit the wrong way with that connection CAN rupture the anastomosed vessel(s) and bleed into the brain. The brain space is pretty tight. There's fluid in there but it's regulated by production, ventricles and connection to the spinal cord. Anyone with a blood pressure of 120/80 (or higher, in the case of a boxer with adrenaline pumping, fight-or-flight in full effect) will bleed into their brain fairly quickly with the subsequent pressure forcing the brain (mostly the cerebellum) into the foramen that normally holds the much smaller brainstem...

Needless to say, that leads to death...compression of the brainstem causes catastrophic damage, breathing cessation, loss of consciousness, many more...


What kind of MDs are you and Mrs. Doc?


My wife wants me to specialize in Anesthesia (she's a Nurse Anesthetist) so we can bill double but I'm either going to stay straight Peds or skip the end for Surgery.

Edited by GCMD, January 29, 2009 - 07:10 PM.


#22 GCMD

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 07:16 PM

the doc got all technical on me, well can i borrow some money, cuz brothas is struggling during the reccession.

BTW, does that term come from the same Latin word as reccess, you being a doc and all , I'm sure you are smart.
ps. you are so lucky that your WIFE knows enough aboout b-ball to talk G. Wallace, but then again you got MD money, so no problems with the ladies


Sorry about that. I wasn't going after you specifically. I was trying to correct a common misconception that has begun to run RAMPANT in the sports world. Alot of lay people parroting what they've heard others say.


As for a loan: [Spreewell]I got kids to feed. How am I gonna feed my family on 21 million dollars? I gotta feed my family!![/Spreewell]

She's got lots of money...me? Not so much, yet. But we do like to give to charities.

#23 Maddocks

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 07:21 PM

anything he says before the disclaimer is sue worthy....DO IT!.

I see faith in your eyes
never you hear the discouraging lies
broken is the promise, betrayal
the healing hand held back by deepened nail
follow the god that failed


#24 GCMD

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 07:47 PM

anything he says before the disclaimer is sue worthy....DO IT!.



My cousin is a lawyer (seriously). I offer free medical advice (and I fix his computers) and he takes care of FRAUDULENT legal claims for me.


Go for it, buddy ;) :evil:

#25 MDI

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 07:50 PM

So shouldn't Howard be supsended for causing this head injury to Ariza :rolleyes:

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Props to sidthekid871


#26 Maddocks

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 08:01 PM

My cousin is a lawyer (seriously). I offer free medical advice (and I fix his computers) and he takes care of FRAUDULENT legal claims for me.


Go for it, buddy ;) :evil:


wasnt for me, someone else can try it...i dont care, i get my medical advice from House MD. :rock:

I see faith in your eyes
never you hear the discouraging lies
broken is the promise, betrayal
the healing hand held back by deepened nail
follow the god that failed


#27 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 08:02 PM

My cousin is a lawyer (seriously). I offer free medical advice (and I fix his computers) and he takes care of FRAUDULENT legal claims for me.


Go for it, buddy ;) :evil:

Doc, I think you meant "frivolous" legal claims, not "fraudulent." Much like how lay people mistake the term "recurrent" concussions. Thanks for the explanations though. Much appreciated.

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, January 29, 2009 - 08:03 PM.


#28 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 08:07 PM

My wife wants me to specialize in Anesthesia (she's a Nurse Anesthetist) so we can bill double but I'm either going to stay straight Peds or skip the end for Surgery.

Straight peds as opposed to a pediatric gynecologist? THAT WAS A JOKE, NOT A BAIT. I just thought it was somewhat ironic that you want to be a Pediatrician. Congrats. We need some good ones out there!

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, January 29, 2009 - 08:10 PM.


#29 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 08:11 PM

So shouldn't Howard be supsended for causing this head injury to Ariza :rolleyes:

Who cares about Juwan Howard? I thought he was irrelevant.

#30 GCMD

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 08:14 PM

Doc, I think you meant "frivolous" legal claims, not "fraudulent." Much like how lay people mistake the term "recurrent" concussions. Thanks for the explanations though. Much appreciated.



Both actually. One for medical advice I DIDN'T give them (from maddocks post - there was nothing before the disclaimer in that post) and the other for advice that common sense should tell you is not fit for use as primary (or secondary) treatment.


If you are interested further, I have a list of texts that expound on the subject. I even have links (from school of course) that have pictures of the different parts of the dura, vessels and different types of brain damage. You'd REALLY have to be a geek to want the neuro links...(I HATED Neuro).

I kept everything from the Basic Science years on a hard drive. Everything from notes to tests to review sessions to links....even audio and video of lectures.

I'm [expletive]-retentive like that (actually, slightly OCD). I know I'm going to regret opening up those cans of worms... :unsure:

#31 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 08:31 PM

If you are interested further, I have a list of texts that expound on the subject. I even have links (from school of course) that have pictures of the different parts of the dura, vessels and different types of brain damage. You'd REALLY have to be a geek to want the neuro links...(I HATED Neuro).

No thanks, Doc, but I appreciate it. You were more than informative.

#32 GCMD

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Posted January 29, 2009 - 08:41 PM

Straight peds as opposed to a pediatric gynecologist? THAT WAS A JOKE, NOT A BAIT. I just thought it was somewhat ironic that you want to be a Pediatrician. Congrats. We need some good ones out there!


No problem...we've cleared it up.



MDI, suspend Howard? For what? Not like he punched him...though, that would have made for more interesting TV.

You stand up, you run the risk of falling. Hit your head and its possible to sustain a concussion. Surely, any contact sport with grown men flying through the air increase that risk.




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