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#201 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:32 AM

By the way. He fouled out. There was no question about it and he knew it, so why'd you even bring it up? It proves my point that he chokes down the stretch anyway. The A-Rod of basketball.



KG used to hit on my wife when they were in high school...(random fact - yes, KG is from South Carolina, Mauldin to be exact. My wife is from Greenville.)


Back on topic.



KG fouled out because of Phil. KG is NOT a choker. Some of this is vitriol of your own, sour grapes perhaps? Failing to land KG? Then, he wins a ring at our expense?

Talk the truth. KG is a first ballot HOFer who has been of the top PFs the entire time he's been in the league. He's a former DPOY and a legit candidate almost every other year. Without KG, the Celtics would been CREAMED by the Lakers last year...and I seriously doubt they make it past ATL.



Talk the truth. KG and Perkins were held in check by the refs, when they weren't in the playoffs and likely WON'T be AGAIN in the playoffs (playoff basketball is much rougher).


I hate the Celts too but I'm taking anything away from them to give to us. Just like I'm not taking anything away from us to give to them.

#202 Scott P

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:37 AM

Scott P just shutup lol....

Well played sir!

#203 Scott P

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:39 AM

once again...i said lmbao, but anyway...I will refrain from calling anyone a Faker fan, but people who use that term, call us fans that b/c they fail to understand the game. They expect perfection for some unknown rfeason, and they blast their team during times when the teams are playing great ball. They dont understand that Kobe is LUCKY to have three rings, while great players have none. People dont understand that every game isnt winnable. They also fail to realize that the other teams want to win just like us.
They really dont understand that this team(minus Bynum) is much better than Last year's teams that got to the Finals. So the bottom line is a lot of people on this site, would fall under the category that many consider Fakers Fans. And I think they deserve that Title. Though I won't call them that.

But Last Stand....dont call me names unless you want too physically meet up and handle it, and that isnt a threat mods. he came at me foul. I am far from a stalker, I just have my opinions, and they are strong. I like 50 as a person, I think Mo williams IS MORE DESERVING THAN RAY ALLEN FOR THE ASG THIS YEAR, and I think KEN and Scott, are the second and third best posters on the site. And i think you like the Celtics secretly

I find myself agreeing with all your takes. Perfection is not possible. People don't reach it in their own lives and yet they expect their athletic heroes to somehow attain it. The pursuit of excellence is a worthwhile goal. The pursuit of perfection is a fools journey.

#204 Scott P

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:45 AM

And we all know how those Mav and Sun offenses fared when it mattred most.

Doc is a real fan who will tell it how it is instead of lying and painting a false sense of security.

So, you're saying to be considered a "real fan" in your eyes I have to start moaning and complaining that they're not perfect?

#205 Scott P

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:51 AM

Thanks for the compliment but it's not necessary. Let people say whatever they want about how "wrong" you or I am. I have known of you on several boards and you are the same now as you were then.

Keep defending your position/opinion with logic and that's all that matters. People are either going to follow your train of thought or they will refuse to listen to reason. I've seen you accept criticism (logical and deserved) and I've seen you emotional.


Scott P,

Agree to disagree. I've said over and over that the Lakers offense is their bread and butter. They are consistently one of the better offensive teams in the league (now) and they are a GREAT team when they care enough to play defense more than sparingly. What you saw in BOS and CLE were exceptions to the rule.


If they play like that on a consistent basis, there will be no discussion of the best team in the league (both offensively and defensively) and the stats would back the Lakers. At this point, the stats don't back them and watching them play, you can't back them. If you want to pretend that the Lakers don't give up layups on the regular or that the Lakers PG doesn't give up penetration like (insert porn actress), go right ahead.

Taking a snapshot of 2 games of the season and calling it "proof" is fatally flawed for many, MANY reasons that require no enumeration based on logic and common sense.


When the Lakers earn the title of top 5 defensive team in the league, I will join you in lauding them as such. As of right now? They are a team that depends on its offense as its primary weapon and play either bad or uninspired defense for the majority of the game.

I'm sorry you disagree. If you have something other than "we beat BOS and CLE", we can talk. If that's all you have, au revoir.

Feel free to dismiss me in a condescending and arrogant manner, my friend, but Boston and Cleveland ARE NOT exceptions to the rule, rather THE RULE: that the Lakers play tough defense in big games. That's the rule. You can moan all you want about the Bobcats of the world, and you'd be right. But give me a BIG GAME, and the Lakers come correct.

#206 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:52 AM

So, you're saying to be considered a "real fan" in your eyes I have to start moaning and complaining that they're not perfect?



No. Being a fan is about love for the team. Complaining is a sign of dissatisfaction, not hatred (when in context and based on facts).

Being a homerish fan amy be your definition of being a real fan.


Either way, we are on the same team. As long as you love the Lakers, the "fan" issue is irrelevant. It's offensive to real fans, no matter what end of the spectrum you are on. Only hostility can come from questioning another members fan-hood because you disagree with their take.



I can't tell you what to do or how to handle the situations but I hope you see that this discussion has no other outcome.


Lets get back to battling the logic of the arguments and try to accept each others position as fans, because ultimately, being a Laker fan is all that counts.

#207 Scott P

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:52 AM

Talk the truth. KG and Perkins were held in check by the refs, when they weren't in the playoffs and likely WON'T be AGAIN in the playoffs (playoff basketball is much rougher).

Yes Ken, "talk the truth" for once in your miserable life.

#208 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:56 AM

Feel free to dismiss me in a condescending and arrogant manner, my friend, but Boston and Cleveland ARE NOT exceptions to the rule, rather THE RULE: that the Lakers play tough defense in big games. That's the rule. You can moan all you want about the Bobcats of the world, and you'd be right. But give me a BIG GAME, and the Lakers come correct.



Scott P,

I don't know what to say. I had no intentions of coming off as condescending or arrogant. That's just how I talk. I'm wordy and I like to use colorful words. If that intimidates you or offends you, please forgive me.

I'll try to be "nicer", I guess. But the best thing to do until I can figure out a way to not sound as condescending (I'm not promising anything) is to put me on your block/ignore list. I don't wish for this board to be an unpleasant place for you. If my interaction with you makes it so, please feel free to ignore me.

#209 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 11:59 AM

Yes Ken, "talk the truth" for once in your miserable life.



You do realize that you are inciting alot of hostility where there was none. It's ok. We all have bad days.

#210 Kenrae

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 12:32 PM

Scott P,

I don't know what to say. I had no intentions of coming off as condescending or arrogant. That's just how I talk. I'm wordy and I like to use colorful words. If that intimidates you or offends you, please forgive me.

I'll try to be "nicer", I guess. But the best thing to do until I can figure out a way to not sound as condescending (I'm not promising anything) is to put me on your block/ignore list. I don't wish for this board to be an unpleasant place for you. If my interaction with you makes it so, please feel free to ignore me.


No please, I like people who write properly. It's a rare sighting nowadays, specially on internet boards.

Yours,
;)
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#211 insert coin here

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 01:15 PM

KG is a well-known choker, he disappears during games... When the game is on the line, he clanks his jumpers... Not only that, he doesn't like banging at the paint, settles for jumper, and doesn't play center... There's a reason Posey was taking those clutch shots...
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#212 Scott P

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 01:36 PM

Scott P,

I don't know what to say. I had no intentions of coming off as condescending or arrogant. That's just how I talk. I'm wordy and I like to use colorful words. If that intimidates you or offends you, please forgive me.

I'll try to be "nicer", I guess. But the best thing to do until I can figure out a way to not sound as condescending (I'm not promising anything) is to put me on your block/ignore list. I don't wish for this board to be an unpleasant place for you. If my interaction with you makes it so, please feel free to ignore me.

Believe me, this board is always better off when you post. Thanks for the explanation.

#213 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 01:40 PM

Believe me, this board is always better off when you post. Thanks for the explanation.


De Nada

#214 Scott P

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 01:41 PM

No. Being a fan is about love for the team. Complaining is a sign of dissatisfaction, not hatred (when in context and based on facts).

Being a homerish fan amy be your definition of being a real fan.


Either way, we are on the same team. As long as you love the Lakers, the "fan" issue is irrelevant. It's offensive to real fans, no matter what end of the spectrum you are on. Only hostility can come from questioning another members fan-hood because you disagree with their take.



I can't tell you what to do or how to handle the situations but I hope you see that this discussion has no other outcome.


Lets get back to battling the logic of the arguments and try to accept each others position as fans, because ultimately, being a Laker fan is all that counts.

But Doc, I was responding "Lakerfool's" comments, not yours.

#215 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 03:12 PM

KG fouled out because of Phil. KG is NOT a choker. Some of this is vitriol of your own, sour grapes perhaps? Failing to land KG? Then, he wins a ring at our expense?

Talk the truth. KG is a first ballot HOFer who has been of the top PFs the entire time he's been in the league. He's a former DPOY and a legit candidate almost every other year. Without KG, the Celtics would been CREAMED by the Lakers last year...and I seriously doubt they make it past ATL.


1) KG fouled out because he swatted Fish like he was a fly. Phil did that?
2) He notoriously disappears down the stretch of games, including a hesitancy to take jumpers, clanking jumpers and a refusal to pound it inside. Before the McKale gift to Ainge and the Chowds, he couldn't even get to the NBA Finals, and that's even when he won the MVP and had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell playing with him at the top of their games.
3) Facts, Doc, not vitriol.
4) I agree he's a first ballot HOFer and one of the greatest PFs of all time. Just like A-Rod (until 2 days ago at least) They are both great. They are both chokes.
5) I agree that the Lakers would have creamed them without KG. Or Ray Allen. Or Paul Pierce. Both of those guys are probably first ballot HOFers, too. They almost didn't make it past ATL with KG. Kind of says it all right there.
6) Just because he had a thing for Mrs. Doc doesn't mean you have to distort who KG is, Doc. Did she put you up to this? :)

P.S.- Tell me this isn't the greatest thread in the history of this forum!

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, February 10, 2009 - 03:19 PM.


#216 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 03:35 PM

1) KG fouled out because he swatted Fish like he was a fly. Phil did that?


That's a no-call 90% of the time. Ball is free and they both are battling for it? I've seen harder fouls not called in Church-League Basketball.

That was a reputation call. KG's not Fish. KG has gotten a rep for picking on little guys. When Phil called out the refs, that's the first thing they were going to be sensitive to.

2) He notoriously disappears down the stretch of games, including a refusal to pound it inside. Before the McKale gift to Ainge and the Chowds, he couldn't even get to the NBA Finals, and that's even when he won the MVP and had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell playing with him at the top of their games.


The Lakers got some questionable calls during that series...Malone was far from 100% and the T-Wolves were playing really good ball. Sam Cassell was SCORCHING everybody at PG.

KG may have missed a shot or 2 but that's far from choking. He was in there fighting to the end and he was a gracious loser. Choking is what Malone did against MJ more than once. And missing fts at the end of a game when you've play 43-47 minutes is not unheard of. There is something called fatigue that factors into it.

As for refusing to bang in the paint: so what? He had a money mid range J and was an elite post defender/anchor. You can't seriously claim that made him a choker. If so, 70% of PFs today are chokers. We are lucky to have a PF who can do both.


3) Facts, not vitriol.


Not even the slightest?

If KG is a choker, what is Lamar? You more accurately described LAMAR than KG. A perennial AllStar? DPOY? MVP?

Your facts are skewed by something. Call it vitriol or call it bias. No need to put KG down to make the Lakers look any better.


4) I agree he's a first ballot HOFer and one of the greatest PFs of all time. Just like A-Rod (until 2 days ago at least) They are both great. They are both chokes.


Agree to disagree.


5) I agree that the Lakers would have creamed them without KG. Or Ray Allen. Or Paul Pierce. Both of those guys are probably first ballot HOFers, too. They almost didn't make it past ATL with KG. Kind of says it all right there.


Neither Ray Allen NOR PP are first ballot HOFers. Just like Chauncey is not. Nor Rip. Nor Ben Wallace.

Finals MVP? DPOY? Championship? Takes more than that to be a first ballot HOFer...KG?

DPOY
MVP
20-10 club
top 5 at his position for his entire career
AND a Ring

That's why he's a first ballot HOFer.

Without KG, the Celtics DEFENSE is average. Without him, LBJ or Chauncey or JJ pick the Celts apart. That's the difference.


6) Just because he had a thing for Mrs. Doc doesn't mean you have to distort who KG is, Doc. Did she put you up to this? :)

:lol:

No, Ken. She didn't even tell me. Her little cousin told me. She says he always looked ashy and stink in high school (she's picky).

I'm not distorting KG. We HATE the Celts. As KG is their best all around and most important player (IMHO), he draws the ire of much of our hate. But when it comes down to it, he's a great player...big mouth, cocky, arrogant? Yes. But the same can be said about Kobe...and is.

#217 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 03:42 PM

Ken,

This is NOT the greatest thread...the Adam Morrison nickname thread is FAR greater :punk: :rock:

But Doc, I was responding "Lakerfool's" comments, not yours.



No prob.

#218 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 03:56 PM

That's a no-call 90% of the time. Ball is free and they both are battling for it? I've seen harder fouls not called in Church-League Basketball.

That was a reputation call. KG's not Fish. KG has gotten a rep for picking on little guys. When Phil called out the refs, that's the first thing they were going to be sensitive to.



The Lakers got some questionable calls during that series...Malone was far from 100% and the T-Wolves were playing really good ball. Sam Cassell was SCORCHING everybody at PG.

KG may have missed a shot or 2 but that's far from choking. He was in there fighting to the end and he was a gracious loser. Choking is what Malone did against MJ more than once. And missing fts at the end of a game when you've play 43-47 minutes is not unheard of. There is something called fatigue that factors into it.

As for refusing to bang in the paint: so what? He had a money mid range J and was an elite post defender/anchor. You can't seriously claim that made him a choker. If so, 70% of PFs today are chokers. We are lucky to have a PF who can do both.




Not even the slightest?

If KG is a choker, what is Lamar? You more accurately described LAMAR than KG. A perennial AllStar? DPOY? MVP?

Your facts are skewed by something. Call it vitriol or call it bias. No need to put KG down to make the Lakers look any better.




Agree to disagree.




Neither Ray Allen NOR PP are first ballot HOFers. Just like Chauncey is not. Nor Rip. Nor Ben Wallace.

Finals MVP? DPOY? Championship? Takes more than that to be a first ballot HOFer...KG?

DPOY
MVP
20-10 club
top 5 at his position for his entire career
AND a Ring

That's why he's a first ballot HOFer.

Without KG, the Celtics DEFENSE is average. Without him, LBJ or Chauncey or JJ pick the Celts apart. That's the difference.



:lol:

No, Ken. She didn't even tell me. Her little cousin told me. She says he always looked ashy and stink in high school (she's picky).

I'm not distorting KG. We HATE the Celts. As KG is their best all around and most important player (IMHO), he draws the ire of much of our hate. But when it comes down to it, he's a great player...big mouth, cocky, arrogant? Yes. But the same can be said about Kobe...and is.

1) Doc, they replayed it many times. KG knew he fouled him and didn't even whine as he's prone to do. Even the announcers gave credit to Fisher on the play and there was no doubt about the call. I can see where you're coming from because the TV angle made it seem like a "no-call" but KG didn't even try to argue it.

2) The Mailman and KG are in the same league on the choke issue. As was Chris Webber. He's either hesitant or clanks them. Actually, he's hesitant because he clanks them and he knows it. But why he's never asserted himself inside is a criticism he's always had to live down. It's just who he is.

3) Nope, not even the slightest. OK, maybe KG doesn't choke down the stretch all the time. I'm not here defending Lamar Odom, but if you want to talk strictly about great bigs and their reputation for finishing, he's a lot closer to Lamar than he is to Tim Duncan.

4) Come on, Doc, you know I prefer to just disagree. "Agree to disagree" is a line from Anchorman.

5) Paul Pierce has been one of the most underrated players in the league for years. I believe he will be a first ballot HOFer. Ray Allen may or may not be first ballot, but he's in. Chauncey Billups would have been, but he was a late bloomer. He still might get in. Rip? That's an excellent question. I think he'll make it, but not first ballot. But he's no Ray Allen. Ben Wallace. No.

6) I'm not buying this cousin story. I still think Mrs. Doc put you up to this! :)

7) I'm a big NBA fan, Doc, not just a Lakers homer. I have followed Kevin Garnett's career and admire him as a player. He's right up there with Tim Duncan, Karl Malone and Kevin McKale on the all-time greatest PF list. Bt Doc, just like A-Rod, who I'm sure will win the big one someday, too, KG IS A CHOKE!

Edited by Ken #1 Beloved, February 10, 2009 - 04:02 PM.


#219 Ken #1 Beloved

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 04:03 PM

That's a no-call 90% of the time. Ball is free and they both are battling for it? I've seen harder fouls not called in Church-League Basketball.

That was a reputation call. KG's not Fish. KG has gotten a rep for picking on little guys. When Phil called out the refs, that's the first thing they were going to be sensitive to.



The Lakers got some questionable calls during that series...Malone was far from 100% and the T-Wolves were playing really good ball. Sam Cassell was SCORCHING everybody at PG.

KG may have missed a shot or 2 but that's far from choking. He was in there fighting to the end and he was a gracious loser. Choking is what Malone did against MJ more than once. And missing fts at the end of a game when you've play 43-47 minutes is not unheard of. There is something called fatigue that factors into it.

As for refusing to bang in the paint: so what? He had a money mid range J and was an elite post defender/anchor. You can't seriously claim that made him a choker. If so, 70% of PFs today are chokers. We are lucky to have a PF who can do both.




Not even the slightest?

If KG is a choker, what is Lamar? You more accurately described LAMAR than KG. A perennial AllStar? DPOY? MVP?

Your facts are skewed by something. Call it vitriol or call it bias. No need to put KG down to make the Lakers look any better.




Agree to disagree.




Neither Ray Allen NOR PP are first ballot HOFers. Just like Chauncey is not. Nor Rip. Nor Ben Wallace.

Finals MVP? DPOY? Championship? Takes more than that to be a first ballot HOFer...KG?

DPOY
MVP
20-10 club
top 5 at his position for his entire career
AND a Ring

That's why he's a first ballot HOFer.

Without KG, the Celtics DEFENSE is average. Without him, LBJ or Chauncey or JJ pick the Celts apart. That's the difference.



:lol:

No, Ken. She didn't even tell me. Her little cousin told me. She says he always looked ashy and stink in high school (she's picky).

I'm not distorting KG. We HATE the Celts. As KG is their best all around and most important player (IMHO), he draws the ire of much of our hate. But when it comes down to it, he's a great player...big mouth, cocky, arrogant? Yes. But the same can be said about Kobe...and is.

1) Doc, they replayed it many times. KG knew he fouled him and didn't even whone as he's prone to do. Even the announcers gave credit to Fisher on the play and there was no doubt about the call. I can see where you're coming from because the TV angle made it seem like "no-call" but KG didn't even try to argue it.
2)The Mailman and KG are in the same league on the choke issue. As was Chris Webber. He's either hesitant or clanks them. Actually, he's hesitant because he clanks them and he knows it. But why he does assert himself inside is a criticism he's always had to live down.
3)Nope, not even the slightest. OK, maybe KG doesn't choke down the stretch all the time. I'm not here defending Lamar Odom, but if you want to talk strictly about great bigs and their reputation for finishing, he's a lot closer to Lamar than he is to Tim Duncan.
4) Come on, Doc, you know I prefer to just disagree. "Agree to disagree" is a line from Anchorman.
5) Paul Pierce has been one of the most underrated players in the league for years. I believe he will be a first ballot HOF. Ray Allen, may or may not be first ballot. Chauncey Billups would have been, but he was a late bloomer. He still might get in. Rip? That's an excellent question. I think he'll make it, but not first ballot. But he's no Ray Allen. Ben Wallace. No.
6) I'm not buying this cousin story. I still think Mrs. Doc put you up to this! :)
7) I'm a big NBA fan, Doc, not just a Lakers homer. I have followed Kevin Garnett's career and admire him as a player. He's right up there with Tim Duncan, Karl Malone and Kevin McKale on the all-time greatest PF list. But Doc, just like A-Rod, who I'm sure will win the big one someday, too, KG IS A CHOKE!

#220 GCMD

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Posted February 10, 2009 - 04:09 PM

Well, I understand where you are coming from.

I just want to remind you of the many times Kobe's missed the last shot. Of Course, he's known for the ones he makes. Winners want to take it, no matter how many times they've missed it. I put KG in that category.


PP and under-rated? Wow. Good scorer...never been a good defender...only decent now because of KG backing him up. Where was PP before KG AND Ray-Ray? Worst record in the league...and it wasn't even close. Worst team in the league. PP was sitting out a large chunk of that season to do what? Tank and get Oden.

Under-rated? I don't think so.


Charles Barkely had to wait to get in. So have other more deserving players, Champions also. PP won't get voted in first ballot. That's a promise. Even if he's the only person on the ballot, he won't get in the first time.


As for chokers, Pau and Paul Pierce were once called chokers. Kobe, Vince, T-Mac, Yao, Divac, JO...et cetera.

It's a subjective term that is difficult to defend or oppose. When they win, that term disappears. If not, what does it REALLY mean? KG has entered the realm of ultimate winner. I think that term needs to be subtracted from his resume now, subjective or not.




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